JonStark Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 19 hours ago, Superduperman said: You know what's funny, is Stafford followed that exact same pattern. After his 2011 season of 5000 yards, he started throwing a ton of picks. We brought in Joe Lombardi as OC and he started going to a ton of checkdowns for the next couple of seasons. Under Jim Bob Cooter, he started coming back to throwing downfield but it wasn't till the last two years with Bevell that he really started being aggressive downfield again. This is why myself and some other Rams fans are so frustrated by the trade. We are two years removed from the Superbowl and a season where Goff looked great. He's about to go into his age 27 season, and the team gave up him just like that. It has nothing to do with not liking Stafford (at least from my opinion), but I just feel like we gave up on Goff too early to see if he could take that step forward, and got rid of a ton of capital along with him. He didn't play great last year, but he was the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the Rams had and currently have, and losing all of that capital will make it even harder to fix them. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superduperman Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Didn't Lions fans used to say that Caldwell deserved to be fired because he was underachieving by 'only' making the playoffs? It was Bob Quinn who said that, trying to justify bringing his buddy in like he planned to do all along. I was in favor of moving on from Caldwell, though, because he made errors in game management that cost the Lions games. What I didn't bargain for was a guy who would say everything the Lions had under Caldwell was crap - it wasn't - and start throwing away veteran pieces of the team in favor of signing other guys who the Patriots didn't want to pay, while Quinn's own draft picks generally busted out or underperformed. Anyway, Stafford was mixed in with all that, and I've said from the start of this process that you can't be involved in what the Lions have been over the course of his time here and share no fault in it at all. Stafford has flaws in his game that the Rams are going to see and there's no doubt of that. What it means for their team's success is the multi-million dollar question. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teen Girl Squad Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 As one of the bigger non-Rams/non-Cal Goff supporters, its pretty clear that Goff regressed/has developed in the ways he needed to to live up to the contract. I defended Goff early with the McVay calling the plays because he was a young QB from an air-raid system who was still learning. The Rams gave him the extension early expecting he'd continue to develop and the game would continue to slow down for him. The opposite has happened. The game is just too fast for him without knowing exactly where to look ahead of time. Doesn't matter if you are McVay, Reid, Shanahan, Payton, Belicheck etc... there is only so much coaching one can do before it really boils down to the players on the field. For all of Reid's creativity, its Mahomes doing Mahomes things when the play call breaks down that really makes the team dynamic. I've never been a huge Stafford guy but I'm bullish on this trade for the Rams. Assuming health, he can do all of things Goff did with McVay's offense but is smart enough to counter opponent's adjustments if they guess the play right and he can still make plays when the defense wins/beats the playcall. I'm thinking along the lines of Matt Ryan with/without Shanahan (not saying he'll win MVP) and what Reid did with Alex Smith (who isn't as good as Stafford). I hope Goff lives up to the hype that I had for him (I always vote for having more good QBs, not fewer) but I've shorted his stock for sure. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TL-TwoWinsAway Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 52 minutes ago, SalvadorsDeli said: Didn't Lions fans used to say that Caldwell deserved to be fired because he was underachieving by 'only' making the playoffs? But now that it comes time to put some gloss on Stafford the new narrative is that the Lions were actually horrible the whole time? No, Caldwell underachieved because he went 7-9, 9-7 and 9-7 over his last three seasons in Detroit. Only in places like Detroit are records like that acceptable. (During those seasons, Detroit ranked 18th, 18th and 27th in team defense, and 26th, 27th and 32nd in yards per carry.) Bob Quinn came from New England, gave Caldwell one season and wanted to bring Matt Patricia to the organization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson_Neat Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Superduperman said: Anyway, Stafford was mixed in with all that, and I've said from the start of this process that you can't be involved in what the Lions have been over the course of his time here and share no fault in it at all. Stafford has flaws in his game that the Rams are going to see and there's no doubt of that. What it means for their team's success is the multi-million dollar question. I think good examples of this are the last 6 minutes of the Chicago opener and the entire Saints game. That INT in the Saints game still mystifies me. Stafford bailed early from the cleanest pocket you could ask for and woefully under threw the pass to the end zone. Easy INT It happens more than you'd like to see from a guy that's been starting for over a decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortdetroit Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 5 hours ago, BofaDeez54927 said: I think good examples of this are the last 6 minutes of the Chicago opener and the entire Saints game. That INT in the Saints game still mystifies me. Stafford bailed early from the cleanest pocket you could ask for and woefully under threw the pass to the end zone. Easy INT It happens more than you'd like to see from a guy that's been starting for over a decade. Those things tend to happen more often when you are in a position of constantly having to make the big play if your team wants to have a chance to stay in the game. Like most of Stafford's career in Detroit. And he threw a bad interception, woopty do. He threw an entire 10 interceptions last year and hasn't thrown more than 13 since 2013. This thought that he's some interception machine, constantly throwing terrible interceptions, and making terrible decisions mystifies me He's averaged 11 interceptions per 16 games the last 7 years of his career....give me a break. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 24 minutes ago, fortdetroit said: Those things tend to happen more often when you are in a position of constantly having to make the big play if your team wants to have a chance to stay in the game. Like most of Stafford's career in Detroit. And he threw a bad interception, woopty do. He threw an entire 10 interceptions last year and hasn't thrown more than 13 since 2013. This thought that he's some interception machine, constantly throwing terrible interceptions, and making terrible decisions mystifies me He's averaged 11 interceptions per 16 games the last 7 years of his career....give me a break. Unfortunately Stafford was drafted to turn a terrible organization around. When he was unable to overcome the organizational incompetence of the Lions he became a scapegoat to many. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, JonStark said: This is why myself and some other Rams fans are so frustrated by the trade. We are two years removed from the Superbowl and a season where Goff looked great. He's about to go into his age 27 season, and the team gave up him just like that. It has nothing to do with not liking Stafford (at least from my opinion), but I just feel like we gave up on Goff too early to see if he could take that step forward, and got rid of a ton of capital along with him. He didn't play great last year, but he was the scapegoat for a lot of the issues the Rams had and currently have, and losing all of that capital will make it even harder to fix them. His performance in 2020 was his worst year imo. Frankly, he gets shorted the credit he deserves for 2019 because of McVay's situational play-calling. We went 9-7 with a mediocre defense and a terrible running game. But our offense finished #11 in PPG and #7 in YPG. How does an offense with a bad running game finish there? Well, the passing attack finished #4 in the NFL in YPG (and #11 in NY/A). The running game finished #26 in YPG (and #27 in YPC). Yet, somehow, we were #19 in passing TDs and #4 in rushing TDs. Had we finished #4 in passing TDs, Goff would have put up 4600+ yards and 30+ TDs. Even with the turnovers, I doubt people would have been crapping on his year. (And that's without getting into how sucky our OL was for most of 2019.) In 2020, the circumstances around him were decent to great depending on the part of the year. He should have played better. But young pocket passers have years like that. You just have to be patient and give them a chance to grow out of it. Edited February 4, 2021 by jrry32 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 52 minutes ago, fortdetroit said: Those things tend to happen more often when you are in a position of constantly having to make the big play if your team wants to have a chance to stay in the game. Like most of Stafford's career in Detroit. This is almost every QB in NFL history and its going to be the case in LA. Sure, you might get 6 easy games, but its what you do in the tough ones that really matter. Even guys like Favre only really had 2 or 3 dominant teams, the rest of the time was just QBs making plays like crazy. If Stafford does this consistently in 2021, it will be the first time. Brees was trailing or tied after halftime in 6 of his 9 playoff wins. 3-0 against the Eagles, so I know this well He constantly had to make the big play and he did it, like a big boy. Every QB who made a name for themselves did this. People want to give this to Stafford for free on an excuse waiver. 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson_Neat Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 1 hour ago, fortdetroit said: Those things tend to happen more often when you are in a position of constantly having to make the big play if your team wants to have a chance to stay in the game. Like most of Stafford's career in Detroit. And he threw a bad interception, woopty do. He threw an entire 10 interceptions last year and hasn't thrown more than 13 since 2013. This thought that he's some interception machine, constantly throwing terrible interceptions, and making terrible decisions mystifies me He's averaged 11 interceptions per 16 games the last 7 years of his career....give me a break. Oh, I wasn't talking in general. I was talking specifically how Stafford's play contributed to those losses. It was 1st down at the Saints 11 in a 14-14 game. What does his INT total in 2014 or 2019 have to do with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 (edited) 54 minutes ago, jrry32 said: His performance in 2020 was his worst year imo. Frankly, he gets shorted the credit he deserves for 2019 because of McVay's situational play-calling. We went 9-7 with a mediocre defense and a terrible running game. But our offense finished #11 in PPG and #7 in YPG. How does an offense with a bad running game finish there? Well, the passing attack finished #4 in the NFL in YPG (and #11 in NY/A). The running game finished #26 in YPG (and #27 in YPC). Yet, somehow, we were #19 in passing TDs and #4 in rushing TDs. Had we finished #4 in passing TDs, Goff would have put up 4600+ yards and 30+ TDs. Even with the turnovers, I doubt people would have been crapping on his year. (And that's without getting into how sucky our OL was for most of 2019.) In 2020, the circumstances around him were decent to great depending on the part of the year. He should have played better. But young pocket passers have years like that. You just have to be patient and give them a chance to grow out of it. What do you do if you keep repeating the same thing to someone and they are still not getting it? Goff’s problems wasn’t stats or throws. It’s that he could not consistently read defenses, he couldn’t guide the OL protection, and he became more complacent those are things you can’t reach and have to come from within. He lacked a sense of urgency and it McVay let it slide in 19 but it ended up costing him his job in 20 Edited February 4, 2021 by rocky_rams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Back to Brees, even in some of his playoff losses its just because he runs out of time in a shootout. The Alex Smith to Vernon Davis game, the Beast Mode game, The Minnesota Miracle. Stafford was just not good enough 3 times and could not lead his team to the playoffs 1 or 2 other times. Beat the 2017 Falcons and the playoffs are there. Or the 7-9 Bengals then find another win. Take a look at the 7 drives between TDs vs Carolina 3 plays punt 3 plays punt halftime 1 play and a fumble 3 plays punt 6 plays turnover on downs 4 plays punt 24 yards on 7 drives I blame the defense 👀 Hold on to a 20-0 lead vs Green Bay in 2015 then beat the legendary 2015 Rams or the 4-12 Chargers and its playoffs Sure, Rodgers to Rodgers was magical. What wasn't was the fumble, punt, FG, punt by Stafford after 20-7 10-6 was very possible and 9-7 tiebreaker over Green Bay should have happened. That's 5 legit playoff teams on talent and schedule that Stafford failed to deliver. 2 failures to qualify 3 failures to win a playoff game Blame everyone else you want also, but start with the QB who was not good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 26 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: What do you do if you keep repeating the same thing to someone and they are still not getting it? Goff’s problems wasn’t stats or throws. It’s that he could not consistently read defenses, he couldn’t guide the OL protection, and he became more complacent those are things you can’t reach and have to come from within. He lacked a sense of urgency and it McVay let it slide in 19 but it ended up costing him his job in 20 I think the best option is to stop trying. It spares you from the awkwardness of realizing that the other person isn't struggling to understand what you're saying. Rather, the other person simply doesn't treat your opinion as if it's the gospel and is capable of making his own calls. I hope that advice helped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 18 minutes ago, rocky_rams said: What do you do if you keep repeating the same thing to someone and they are still not getting it? Goff’s problems wasn’t stats or throws. It’s that he could not consistently read defenses, he couldn’t guide the OL protection, and he became more complacent those are things you can’t reach and have to come from within. He lacked a sense of urgency and it McVay let it slide in 19 but it ended up costing him his job in 20 Check your work. If you use the words above in bold then revise it. No QB can play in the NFL without reading defenses. Are some better at recognizing exotic disguises on 5 or 6 plays a game? sure Brady and Manning were 2 of the few who got master level at it. Manning sure as heck was not a master after 66 starts 6 pick 6s in year 4 and 23 picks in total in a 6-10 year. Goff is at start number 74 If blitzes did not work because everyone easily read them every time then teams would blitz a lot less. The entire point of football playcalling is tricking the other team into not knowing what you are doing. If you use the words above in red you are into some serious next level conspiracy theory, This in blue is some Jimmy the Greek level garbage. What did Goff do to you to cause so much anger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 4, 2021 Share Posted February 4, 2021 Why don't gms like Snead get held accountable? The amount spent to trade up for Goff, the big contract, and then the ammount spent to unload Goff. Stafford is an upgrade no doubt but so many things can go wrong for this trade too look terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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