rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: No, it doesn't. You're arguing with a straw man of your own creation. McVay can design a great system, and Goff can execute that system well. In such a scenario, both are responsible for the offense's success. Goff isn't a "byproduct of the offense" if he can succeed in other systems. The last two years Goff couldn’t execute which is why he’s gone. if he was still executing we would not be talking about this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, rocky_rams said: The last two years Goff couldn’t execute which is why he’s gone. if he was still executing we would not be talking about this This is irrelevant to the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, jrry32 said: This is irrelevant to the discussion. How? Goff is not the driver as much as he is a byproduct. If he was the driver of the offense then he would’ve done much better than he did this season the coach doesn’t need to read the coverage almost every play to a QB who’s a driver Edited February 3, 2021 by rocky_rams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Just now, rocky_rams said: How? Goff is not the driver as much as he is a byproduct. If he was the driver of the offense then he would’ve done much better than he did this season the coach doesn’t need to read the coverage to a QB who’s a driver almost every play I don't have the patience for more of this nonsense. Don't conflate your assumptions with facts. And if your logic here was sound, that would make players like Matt Stafford, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, etc. "byproducts" of their offenses because they too had years where they regressed and didn't play well. Talk to me in a year. We'll have some clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: I don't have the patience for more of this nonsense. Don't conflate your assumptions with facts. And if your logic here was sound, that would make players like Matt Stafford, Ben Roethlisberger, Peyton Manning, Philip Rivers, etc. "byproducts" of their offenses because they too had years where they regressed and didn't play well. Talk to me in a year. We'll have some clarity. Those QBs did well in multiple systems. We’ll see if Goff can do the same. I’ll be rooting for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, rocky_rams said: Those QBs did well in multiple systems. We’ll see if Goff can do the same. I’ll be rooting for him Exactly my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, jrry32 said: Exactly my point. Right but the history shows that, til this point, Goff is NOT the driver of the offense. because: 1. he didn’t do well under Jeff Fisher 2. in his best years, he had the best offensive player in the league on his team (TG3) 3. When TG3 wasn’t himself anymore, Goff drastically regressed so, no, he has not been the driver but a byproduct. can he turn into the driver of an offense? That remains to be seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 minute ago, rocky_rams said: Right but the history shows that, til this point, Goff is NOT the driver of the offense. because: 1. he didn’t do well under Jeff Fisher 2. in his best years, he had the best offensive player in the league on his team (TG3) 3. When TG3 wasn’t himself anymore, Goff drastically regressed so, no, he has not been the driver but a byproduct. can he turn into the driver of an offense? That remains to be seen Except history doesn't show that. We don't have an answer at the present time. Kirk Cousins has actually been more productive outside of McVay's scheme. Goff will have his chance. A bunch of people making assumptions isn't the same thing as facts. 1. He was a rookie, and Boras was the worst OC I've ever seen. Case Keenum went from looking awful in that same scheme as a veteran QB to leading the Vikings to the playoffs with a passer rating of nearly 100 the very next year. 2. Okay? He's not the first QB to have talented players around him. 3. That regression also coincided with the OL regressing. Additionally, young pocket passers are volatile from year to year. For example, Stafford regressed in a massive way from 2011 to 2012. So no, you can't possibly answer if Goff was a "byproduct" of the system at this point in time. You were finally right. I don't know why you decided to start digging again. We'll have more clarity in a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jameson_Neat Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 If the argument is that Goff is just a passenger, then shouldn't more heat be put on the conductor for the train going off track? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 22 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Except history doesn't show that. We don't have an answer at the present time. Kirk Cousins has actually been more productive outside of McVay's scheme. Goff will have his chance. A bunch of people making assumptions isn't the same thing as facts. 1. He was a rookie, and Boras was the worst OC I've ever seen. Case Keenum went from looking awful in that same scheme as a veteran QB to leading the Vikings to the playoffs with a passer rating of nearly 100 the very next year. 2. Okay? He's not the first QB to have talented players around him. 3. That regression also coincided with the OL regressing. Additionally, young pocket passers are volatile from year to year. For example, Stafford regressed in a massive way from 2011 to 2012. So no, you can't possibly answer if Goff was a "byproduct" of the system at this point in time. You were finally right. I don't know why you decided to start digging again. We'll have more clarity in a year. I guess we will see in a year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocky_rams Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 16 minutes ago, BofaDeez54927 said: If the argument is that Goff is just a passenger, then shouldn't more heat be put on the conductor for the train going off track? Goff is not a passenger. He’s derailed the train into the wrong direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Not sure if this has been said...though it probably has with 88 pages. Anyway, how is this not a great deal for both teams? No one will be talking about this even being slightly bad for the Rams if they get to the championship game or Superbowl. For the Lions, I also think this is definition what a new GM dreams of. Yes those draft picks will be closer to the 2nd round, but that's usually the territory you can pick up some great defensive pieces, WRs, and RBs. Two of those on top of whatever the Lions pick, is quite good IMO. In regards to the Goff situation, I see it as really no risk at all. Either, he shows a great ability to grow in a different system and is young so you are set, or he sucks horrifically like some people say he will here and gets you a top5 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 My only comment on this whole debate is using a QB's W/L record as a determinate stat by itself has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen. This isn't baseball, and we aren't looking at pitchers. A QB can be very good and be in a terrible situation for a long time... which describes Matt Stafford perfectly. Was this trade good for the rams? I honestly doubt it... but man some of the arguments being made in this thread are straight up crazy talk. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: My only comment on this whole debate is using a QB's W/L record as a determinate stat by itself has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen. This isn't baseball, and we aren't looking at pitchers. I'm so glad this is quickly becoming the narrative in our little community. W/L are a a team stat. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkippyX Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: My only comment on this whole debate is using a QB's W/L record as a determinate stat by itself has to be one of the most idiotic things I have ever seen. This isn't baseball, and we aren't looking at pitchers. A QB can be very good and be in a terrible situation for a long time... which describes Matt Stafford perfectly. Was this trade good for the rams? I honestly doubt it... but man some of the arguments being made in this thread are straight up crazy talk. Can you explain to us who is ONLY using W/Ls as you pass judgement on them? Its a factor. Its the number 1 factor. But there's a lot more to it. Saying Stafford was in a terrible place for a long time infantilizes him. Its also a complete lie. They made the playoffs 3 times while he was there and he was a major factor in not making it a 4th and possibly a 5th time. (2017, he lost to Atlanta at home after being tied 23-23 into the 4th) Atlanta made the playoffs at 10-6 and Detroit was 9-7. WHAT A TERRIBLE SITUATION Archie Manning was in a terrible situation. https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nor/ Steve Young in Tampa was in a terrible situation. (he was rescued after 2 years) https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/1985.htm https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/tam/1986.htm David Carr was in a terrible situation https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/htx/ The 1985-1995 Cardinals were in a terrible situation 7 division rivals won the Super Bowl in 11 years and the other rival had Reggie White They finished 3rd twice, 4th 3 times, and 5th 6 times in 11 seasons. They had 5 head coaches That division had 21 playoff teams in 11 years in a 2 wildcard conference. They faced 3 HoF coaches in division (4 if you count the end of Landry's regime) Compare that to not having a top end running game and only having a great D once when you took the year off due to incompetence. He played, he just did not play well. Stafford was in a terrible situation in Detroit for about a year and 3 games after being drafted. Things were pretty bad with Patricia but Stafford was a major reason that Caldwell was fired. Edited February 3, 2021 by SkippyX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts