Stafford traded to the Rams for Goff, multiple FRPs

[SkippyX]

5 hours ago, Xenos said:

You do realize the irony of your post right? You basically parroted a bunch of former coaches to defend your Stafford criticism. But it all lacks context, not to mention research, knowledge, analysis, or insight. Take Joe Lombardi for example. He’s the OC of my team now and I’m obligated to defend him. But after doing even an inkling of research (something that I don’t think you did at all), I realized that his time in Detroit was an unmitigated disaster. He did not even last two years. Despite having Stafford, Megatron, and Golden Tate the highest he got that offense was 19th overall in 2014. It completely tanked the following year leading to him being fired halfway through the season. A huge part of the problem was that he tried to make the Lions into the Saints instead of being more flexible and building on his players strengths.
@jrry32 can probably tell you more about the offensive wunderkind that is Scott Linehan.

 

 

You can spout any nonsense you want. It doesn't make any of it true.

 

I point to a slew of top 5 offenses. These guys have piled up top 5 offenses.

Now weigh that against your opinion that you stole from hot take bros on TV.

This stupid and pathetic opinion depends on these guys not only not being parts of lots of top 5 offenses, they also have to be incompetent. If his OCs are not incompetent then this moronic defense of Stafford falls apart.

A parrot does not research and form opinions it just says what it hears.

If you think what I did is parroting then it really explains a lot.

 

I don't think you don't understand what irony is either. 🤡

 

[Jameson_Neat]

1 hour ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

You bring up 2013. I remember that year: lost two games to two long, last second field goals, lost the "snow bowl" to the Eagles. I remember Calvin fumbling on his way into the end zone to lose that game against the Bucs. Fluky season. I also remember our lack of WR depth really stinging that year, with both Calvin and Burleson missing time, forcing Kris Durham onto the field. It was disappointing not to have done better, which is why Schwartz was fired.

There was a lot of talk after that year about Stafford trying to do "too much". (Caldwell essentially got the job in Detroit for that reason.)

Games 11-15, Stafford turned the ball over 13 times.

With average QB play, the Lions win the division.

 

 

[Xenos]

10 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

 

I point to a slew of top 5 offenses. These guys have piled up top 5 offenses.

Now weigh that against your opinion that you stole from hot take bros on TV.

This stupid and pathetic opinion depends on these guys not only not being parts of lots of top 5 offenses, they also have to be incompetent. If his OCs are not incompetent then this moronic defense of Stafford falls apart.

A parrot does not research and form opinions it just says what it hears.

If you think what I did is parroting then it really explains a lot.

 

I don't think you don't understand what irony is either. 🤡

 

Looks like Polly wants a cracker.

[SkippyX]

2 minutes ago, Xenos said:

Looks like Polly wants a cracker.

Wow, double down on being wrong.

Find a mirror and flex. You win in your delusion.

[Xenos]

1 minute ago, SkippyX said:

Wow, double down on being wrong.

Find a mirror and flex. You win in your delusion.

I’m sorry I hurt your feelings and called you out on your hypocrisy. Let me brush away all your problems Polly.

[Xenos]

3 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

Wow, double down on being wrong.

Find a mirror and flex. You win in your delusion.

[SkippyX]

3 minutes ago, Xenos said:

I’m sorry I hurt your feelings and called you out on your hypocrisy. Let me brush away all your problems Polly.

I don't know you on here, I don't really care to either.

I will say this. Of every post in the history of this site, calling me a parrot is in the top 20 stupidest things ever said.

I have been wrong often, everyone is.

I have made assumptions that have later been proven wrong. Most do.

I have made predictions like everyone and like everyone sometimes they are laughably terrible at the end of the year.

If you think anything I do on here makes me a parrot its because you are an imbecile.

[TL-TwoWinsAway]

23 minutes ago, BofaDeez54927 said:

Games 11-15, Stafford turned the ball over 13 times.

With average QB play, the Lions win the division.

 

 

Yep.

[Xenos]

15 minutes ago, SkippyX said:

I don't know you on here, I don't really care to either.

I will say this. Of every post in the history of this site, calling me a parrot is in the top 20 stupidest things ever said.

I have been wrong often, everyone is.

I have made assumptions that have later been proven wrong. Most do.

I have made predictions like everyone and like everyone sometimes they are laughably terrible at the end of the year.

If you think anything I do on here makes me a parrot its because you are an imbecile.

It’s okay. I forgive you Skippy for not knowing any better. Even if most of your posts are nothing more than stolen hot takes.

[Xenos]

3 hours ago, TL-TwoWinsAway said:

Elite quarterbacks do. Then again, Aaron Rodgers is arguably the best QBs in the NFL over the last 11 years and has only one Super Bowl appearance to show for it. Why?

No one is calling Stafford elite. He's a very good QB that has never had a great supporting cast. The one year where his supporting cast was "good", he went 11-5.

Pretty much this is my feelings also. Not sure why some people don’t get it.

[fortdetroit]

3 hours ago, jrry32 said:

It makes a world of difference in an offense designed around having a successful rushing attack. Goff has had plenty of great games where the running game did nothing. The Lions designed their team to be a pass-first offense. (Additionally, we had an offense that ranked in the top 10 in 2019 with a garbage running game, so . . . .)

He was definitely better off with the Lions than the Rams.

Ah yes, Vanillahan. He's not a guy I'd want as my OC. But he's also not totally incompetent. I don't think he's a good OC. But he's not abjectly terrible either (was an abjectly terrible HC, though). Linehan is akin to Brian Schottenheimer. 

The Lions have been a laughing stock because of how awful they were during the 2000's and their lack of sustained regular season success (and any playoff success) over the past decade. But aren't great/elite QBs supposed to elevate franchises?

The Rams had the 15th ranked running game by DVOA in 2019.  "Garbage" lol.  That's would be nearly a record high for Stafford and the Lions - Lions have only been at that point or higher one time, 12th in DVOA in 2012, when they had the 8th best offense in the league.

Edited February 5, 2021 by fortdetroit

[LeotheLion]

13 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

The Rams had the 15th ranked running game by DVOA in 2019.  "Garbage" lol.  That's would be nearly a record high for Stafford and the Lions - Lions have only been at that point or higher one time, 12th in DVOA in 2012, when they had the 8th best offense in the league.

The Rams were 27th in yards per carry in 2019. I'd suspect the Rams ranked higher in DVOA due to a high rushing TD total which isn't really reflective of how good the rushing attack was. It was garbage. 

[fortdetroit]

10 minutes ago, LeotheLion said:

The Rams were 27th in yards per carry in 2019. I'd suspect the Rams ranked higher in DVOA due to a high rushing TD total which isn't really reflective of how good the rushing attack was. It was garbage. 

It appears you do not understand how DVOA works.  A bunch of short touchdowns when the running game is otherwise garbage, would be factored into the DVOA rankings.  You don't extra DVOA credit if you score a bunch of easy touchdowns you would be expected to score (like from the 1 yard line for example).

DVOA takes into account their low yards per carry and adjusts it for game situation and what would be expected in the situations the Rams ran in. It's not just a total of rushing yards and touchdowns and YPC.

Edited February 6, 2021 by fortdetroit

[fortdetroit]

2 hours ago, SalvadorsDeli said:

It's not really just garbage time, it's just his general situation as a whole. My point is moreso that some of the things people are throwing around in here to burnish Stafford's credentials  - bad defense and no running game in particular - are actually things that might help him in terms of his volume output and production, even if those are clearly not ideal circumstances for helping the Lions win football games. 

I don't want to derail this thread but since you asked I'll answer. And my answer is no, knowing full well some of it just comes from having my own attachments to Lamar. Deshaun was better than him this year but the gap isn't nearly as large as I think a lot of people on here in particular pretend, and Lamar was better than him last season. I'd rather just bet on my guy and the unique skillset and opportunity he offers by actually surrounding him with some weapons. 

Some of the things I'm talking about with Stafford's reputation are very much happening with Deshaun IMO. He's basically gotten more credit this year for putting up crazy stats in the seasonal equivalent of low stakes garbage time compared to when he was putting up slightly worse numbers in games that actually mattered while leading the Texans into the playoffs. As it relates to Lamar, I think he's an example of someone where his situation is optimized for team success but not necessarily individual success. We thankfully don't end up in huge deficits often but with a couple of notable exceptions (KC game this year in particular, which was probably the worst game of his career), when he has ended up in the sorts of situations Deshaun got to play in this year, he's put up video game stats too.

I suspect if Lamar just played for a crappy team, without being a dramatically different player than who he is now he'd put up close to 5000 total yards of offense while going 6-10 and he'd be more respected in a lot of circles for it, as opposed to playing in a conservative ball-control offense (which ultimately is just Harbaugh's MO and has been as long as he's been here) that certainly hasn't stopped us from winning games but doesn't always do him favors in the stat box. 

Does throwing a lot help volume stats?  Yes, with a disclaimer that you have to actually be able to consistently pick up first downs and move the ball with your arm.  Let Mitch Trubisky throw the ball a whole bunch game after game and the offense is going to struggle to pick up first downs and stay on the field.

Does throwing a lot when your defense sucks, your running game sucks, the opposing defense knows it doesn't have to worry about your team running the ball effectively, and the QB is the only one who can consistently move the ball up and down the field or else the offense dies, so the QB has to consistently try to make plays help efficiency?  No, and I would argue it does the opposite.  

[SalvadorsDeli]

50 minutes ago, fortdetroit said:

Does throwing a lot help volume stats?  Yes, with a disclaimer that you have to actually be able to consistently pick up first downs and move the ball with your arm.  Let Mitch Trubisky throw the ball a whole bunch game after game and the offense is going to struggle to pick up first downs and stay on the field.

Does throwing a lot when your defense sucks, your running game sucks, the opposing defense knows it doesn't have to worry about your team running the ball effectively, and the QB is the only one who can consistently move the ball up and down the field or else the offense dies, so the QB has to consistently try to make plays help efficiency?  No, and I would argue it does the opposite.  

Sure. The operative difference is I'm talking about what it looks like when good QB's play on bad teams though, not what it looks like when a crappy QB has to throw the ball a lot. Stafford is undoubtedly a good QB, I'm just saying there are some circumstances where his volume stats could have been skewed by the circumstances around him. You do have to be a good enough QB to take advantage of that, which he was. 

Not to say that throughout his career he didn't run into situations where his lack of a running game didn't hurt him. But at a macro level a lot of it likely did help lead to situations where he was able to put up better stats. A bad running game means designing the offense to be pass-first in the first place. For as many 2nd and longs and such his running game put him into it also creates opportunities for lots of easier throws manufacturing the run and lots more opportunities to throw instead of being backed into having to throw only in obvious passing downs. 

Every time his crappy defense put him in a 2+ score hole, he'd get more and more opportunities to throw against softer coverages. Every back half of the season where the Lions were 5-8 or 3-7 or whatever presented him with a bunch of games where the pressure was already off, the games didn't matter, and he could just go out there and sling it without a care in the world. It's just little things like that which add up. Bad for the Lions. Pretty much fine in terms of Stafford's individual output.

His career kind of bears this out too. The best year of his career personally was also one of the only 2 years the Lions had double digit wins - and in that respect 2011 is clearly the high point of his career. But other time they did - 2014 -  coincided with numbers that are clearly middle of the road for Stafford, and weren't anything approaching elite compared to the rest of the league. So in regards to how we project his play with the Rams, in higher pressure situations and in lower volume... it's not really possible to just extrapolate his production in these empty calorie years and say that he's that but even better in LA. 

 

Edited February 6, 2021 by SalvadorsDeli