BroncosFan2010 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Quote I don't think Elway is as bad as putting a roster together as some think. And I don't think he is as good as Manning made him look. Facts are these types of things are what happens when your face of the .franchise retires. You regress significantly. And we didn't have the luxury of a top pick to land a Luck, Watson, Wentz. These are just facts Ya, I think some people are riding too hard against Elway. He has been horrible in terms of finding offensive talent in the draft, and has made some mistakes trying to penny pinch on OL talents in FA, but he is still a quality GM. Just not the god-tier GM that many thought he was. Quote Isn't this years draft class supposed to be QB deep? Allen would be great..you know he can spin in it cold weather...and it is a short ride down I-25 to Denver. Allen has two games of under 100 yards passing playing in a low talent conference, and is coming off a game where he completed 44% of his passes. He would be a horrible pick. He just isn't a good football player at this point and should not be in the conversation for a top 50 pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Re: picking a franchise QB, it's no easy task by any means - but when you throw your hat in the ring and invest a 1st rounder and trade your 3rd to get that pick, you are staking your franchise's future to that guy for 2-3 years. It's why we're in QB limbo right now, because we have to let Lynch's development play out. Until it does, we can't really look elsewhere with significant resources. It's beyond unfortunate that Siemian's 2016 issues are still here, much as we hoped it was going away after a promising first 4+ games in 2017, because we didn't have the room to try and field a more complete team and upgrade QB - and judging by the gaps in our OL and our ILB corps, even with penny-pinching on QB, Elway didn't get the job done on fielding a more complete team, or even a decently balanced one. I've heard the argument that a good to great QB can make up for deficiencies elsewhere, and it's true to some extent - but not when your OL is this bad, or our WR corps this thin with 1 of 2 key starters out, or in this case, both. Having said all the above, we are deluding ourselves if we think Oz has any hope of developing. Lynch may have a 10-20 percent chance of becoming a league-average QB, but Oz is pretty much a finished project. If we ever go to 2018 mode, then it has to be Lynch, barring injury. Anyone but Oz. As long as we are trying to win for 2017, Siemian gets the nod. Once we throw in the towel and think 2018, then as long as he's healthy (and it will be really painful to watch), then you might as well see where Lynch is at. Until then, as hard as it is to accept, Siemian's our best option. It's not a popular opinion, and I get why - it means we have a lot less hope of fixing our O problems this year. People want to believe we can fix things quickly....but if Siemian's not able to be even league-average, well, given where Oz will always be, and where Lynch is currently at, we're pretty much sunk if Siemian can't repair his level of play. If we are thinking 2018+, then no worries at all with a different direction. But let's call it what it is if we go that route, and not kid ourselves about 2017 then. As long as we want to go for 2017, then as painful as it is, Siemian's the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncofan48 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 I think most people here at least concede that Siemian is a backup caliber QB. If anyone thinks Os is going to magically improve theyre wrong. We know what he is, I'm thankful for the run in 2015 he had but he's not the long term answer either. That leaves Lynch and Kelly. I think as soon as he's ready we are going to see Lynch in there just to see if he has any chance of developing into something. That said what do you guys think will happen next year? If Lynch doesn't show well the second half of this season and we know what we have in Os and Trevor that pretty much pigeon holes us into QB again early in the draft unless they think Kelly can be the guy which is very optimistic if you ask me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 The worst thing you can do is hang on to a prospect for too long. If Lynch isn't the guy, then cut bait. It's a sunk cost. If we end up bad enough this year that we can get a top tier QB, we should do it, IMO. It would be foolish to pass on someone good because you think Lynch might become serviceable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Just now, broncofan48 said: I think most people here at least concede that Siemian is a backup caliber QB. If anyone thinks Os is going to magically improve theyre wrong. We know what he is, I'm thankful for the run in 2015 he had but he's not the long term answer either. That leaves Lynch and Kelly. I think as soon as he's ready we are going to see Lynch in there just to see if he has any chance of developing into something. That said what do you guys think will happen next year? If Lynch doesn't show well the second half of this season and we know what we have in Os and Trevor that pretty much pigeon holes us into QB again early in the draft unless they think Kelly can be the guy which is very optimistic if you ask me While it would be great to have scrimmages, the only indication will be OTA's next offseason. It's why if we do start thinking 2018, then (and only then) does it make sense to see where Lynch is at. If Lynch is Kizer-level bad (7 TO's inside the opponent 5-yard line in his 5+ starts, that's horrible), then we have to re-think about drafting for another guy next year, or look to a Tyrod Taylor type-guy so it gives real competition to Lynch next offseason, and someone we can actually count on to play if Lynch isn't ready. Frankly, that's more likely a better option, because of the developmental curve another rookie will require, and our likely draft spot (which while playoffs are a pipe dream the way we're playing, a pick in the mid-late teen's seems most likely if we miss playoffs with a 7-9 type season). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, broncos67 said: The worst thing you can do is hang on to a prospect for too long. If Lynch isn't the guy, then cut bait. It's a sunk cost. If we end up bad enough this year that we can get a top tier QB, we should do it, IMO. It would be foolish to pass on someone good because you think Lynch might become serviceable. I agree, but I don't think we'll be bad enough to get a QB that will make people get excited about from the draft. CLE, SF and NYG are all going to be top 5 pick teams, and while one of them (SF most likely) is signing Cousins, the other 2 are going QB IMO. I'd be surprised if 3-4 guys aren't gone by the time we are picking. Maybe there's still a guy who we'd get excited about - but what I don't want is another horrible reach. That sets us back another 2-3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan07 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Linking to a Kiszla article should be a bannable offense IMO. While Brock has proved he's not worth the contract Houston gave him I let him play out be year as a starter and basically redshirt Paxton. Of course the best option was Kap but that was never going to happen. I really like Trevor and I hope he can stick around as a backup cause he could be very good at that role, hell Drew Stanton is about to be the starter again and he's been in the league for a long time now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoinGermany Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Pat Smyth just quoted Joseph saying that he is firmly remaining in Siemian’s corner. "Trevor is our guy." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, BroncoinGermany said: Pat Smyth just quoted Joseph saying that he is firmly remaining in Siemian’s corner. "Trevor is our guy." Yup, Renck confirms as well....TS13 still the guy this week. https://twitter.com/TroyRenck/status/922540949041041413 Troy Renck ✔@TroyRenck #Broncos stick with Siemian as starter. Will write-thru story after Joseph presser: @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2hZbjaC 3:11 PM - Oct 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 3 minutes ago, BroncoinGermany said: Pat Smyth just quoted saying that Joseph is firmly remaining in Trevor’s corner, saying that Siemian is "our guy". It's not like he has a choice. Brock is not the answer and Lynch/Kelly are still hurt. If it were up to me, I'd rather see us tank to get a good QB, rather than trying to salvage this season for a potential one and done playoff run. We're not going anywhere with the stable of crappy QBs we have anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLikeDefense Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 11 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Yup, Renck confirms as well....TS13 still the guy this week. https://twitter.com/TroyRenck/status/922540949041041413 Troy Renck ✔@TroyRenck #Broncos stick with Siemian as starter. Will write-thru story after Joseph presser: @DenverChannel http://bit.ly/2hZbjaC 3:11 PM - Oct 23, 2017 Maybe VJ wants to kill Siemian. He's taking a lot of hits. That hit Ingram landed on him..ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Well, as much as we're thin at ILB, this might be addition by subtraction....Davis has a HAS, which usually means 4-6 weeks out. Not that we couldn't have used ILB (everyone knows my feelings on Reuben Foster, but set that aside...no later picks, no FA's, nothing...sigh). Given our complete lack of ILB roster depth, I seriously think we have to consider a beefed up DL with Kerr-Peko-Wolfe, and then use our safeties as hybrid players, especially against Travis Kelce and Zach Ertz the next 2 weeks - nothing against Gronk, but right now they are the top 2 TE's in today's NFL. https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/922546917682409474 Mike Klis ✔@MikeKlis ILB Todd Davis has high ankle sprain. #9sports 3:34 PM - Oct 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Well we got better news here....getting Ray back suddenly helps our EDGEs both in pass rush and in run D (the bigger key with Kareem Hunt)...Sanders is a huge difference-maker, D's can't roll coverage to bracket DT as the only guy. https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/922550806678786048 Mike Klis ✔@MikeKlis Emmmanuel Sanders, Isaiah McKenzie, Menelik Watson upgraded to day-to-day. Chance to play vs. Chiefs. Shane Ray returns. #9sports 3:50 PM - Oct 23, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 48 minutes ago, Broncofan said: I agree, but I don't think we'll be bad enough to get a QB that will make people get excited about from the draft. CLE, SF and NYG are all going to be top 5 pick teams, and while one of them (SF most likely) is signing Cousins, the other 2 are going QB IMO. I'd be surprised if 3-4 guys aren't gone by the time we are picking. Maybe there's still a guy who we'd get excited about - but what I don't want is another horrible reach. That sets us back another 2-3 years. I think with the Niners being highly likely to end up with a top-5 pick and be the leading favorites to sign Kirk Cousins, there's a strong possibility they look to move down and stockpile picks. Clearly they are after picks, they tried trading Navarro Bowman before releasing him. Kyle/Lynch/Peters know that they have least-talented roster in the NFL and want to build through the draft. Thus would be a prime candidate for us to trade up with for a QB, the good relationship between Elway and Lynch only helps that possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted October 23, 2017 Share Posted October 23, 2017 Quote Given our complete lack of ILB roster depth, I seriously think we have to consider a beefed up DL with Kerr-Peko-Wolfe, and then use our safeties as hybrid players, especially against Travis Kelce and Zach Ertz the next 2 weeks lol. You think this coaching staff is that creative? Zaire will get Todd's snaps and be just as poor in coverage. Its the Denver way. That being said, its the right move to stick with Trevor. The best of bad options at this point. I was really hoping NO crumbled this season so we had a chance at Brees, but they might win that division. I think this is Eli's last year in NY, and don't hate the idea of swinging for the fences with him. Clearly regressing but we have seen downward trending veterans leave a team and regain steam on a new squad. And Eli clearly would have interest with his brother having a good relation w/ our FO. We have the talent to win a SB with decent OL and QB play, it may make sense to go the vet route and try to maximize that before Von starts to decline and Talib ends up slowing down. Drafting another R1 QB in 2018 probably wont make many veterans on this defense too happy. We need to pick a side, rebuild and disassemble the defense for picks and youth or try and get another ring on their backs with a veteran QB at the helm. I hope for the latter. We still have it defensively but it wont last forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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