Roster/Cuts Thread

[RSkinGM]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Not weak side guys, they’re coverage linebackers especially in today’s NFL.

Ideally it would be good to have a big guy that can cover ! Rare breed I guess. 

[turtle28]

16 minutes ago, RSkinGM said:

Ideally it would be good to have a big guy that can cover ! Rare breed I guess. 

I honestly think Jamin Davis should be playing WLB this year & the rest of his career but they want him at MLB so. 🤷‍♂️He’s 6’3, 234 he’d be most effective for that position, he has good length and his biggest asset is his speed & his coverage ability.

Give me a thumper two down LB for MLB, have Davis & Holcomb play the LBs in the nickel D.

Edited September 2, 2021 by turtle28

[Woz]

13 hours ago, Thaiphoon said:

I also still disagree on Apke. I don't care that he's a gunner. Keeping a guy who can only run down punts and literally cannot do another thing on the field besides that, is a luxury this team cannot afford.

I missed all of the preseason (only turned on game 3 and saw it was 37-3 and decided not worth my time), so I cannot comment on Moreland vs. McTyer.

However, I completely agree with this point. Apke offers so little that keeping is somewhat inexplicable.

[Woz]

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Totally understand but that’s what they’ve evaluated and we all know that certain players have made teams rosters since the NFL began just because they were good at special teams. We all loved Lorenzo Alexander, the first 10 years of his career until he got to Buffalo he was just a special teams ace. Steve Tasker is another perfect example. Etc, etc.

Difference was that Alexander wasn't given a chance to start on a defense until he got to Buffalo.

Apke has had multiple chances to play on the defense, but only gives the team value as a gunner.

[e16bball]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

I missed all of the preseason (only turned on game 3 and saw it was 37-3 and decided not worth my time), so I cannot comment on Moreland vs. McTyer.

However, I completely agree with this point. Apke offers so little that keeping is somewhat inexplicable.

I’m no Apke fan, but I pretty strongly suspect that as long as he’s healthy, he’ll play more snaps for the 2021 Football Team than at least 10-15 of the guys they kept on the initial 53. 

I know the idea of pure ST players can’t be that foreign to you guys. Most teams have a guy or two who basically only covers kicks and never plays from scrimmage except in an emergency. We’ve carried Deshazor Everett in that role for years. To me, the question is whether Apke is THAT good in the role that he’s worth keeping as one of your dedicated specialists — from listening to Rivera talk about him, it seems they think he is, at least. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, Woz said:

Difference was that Alexander wasn't given a chance to start on a defense until he got to Buffalo.

Apke has had multiple chances to play on the defense, but only gives the team value as a gunner.

Alexander wasn’t good enough as a guard or DT to start as a young player, Kendric Golston & Anthony Montgomery started ahead of him beyond the obvious Cornelius Griffen. 
 

And, Actually Alexander did start 12 games as an OLB in our 3-4 in 2010, he only had 1.5 sacks and he wasn’t very good as an edge pass rusher but, he was good vs the run - of course it was his first year doing it. Instead of sticking with him there and developing him as a starting Lb, in the next draft we drafted Kerrigan.

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, e16bball said:

I’m no Apke fan, but I pretty strongly suspect that as long as he’s healthy, he’ll play more snaps for the 2021 Football Team than at least 10-15 of the guys they kept on the initial 53. 

I know the idea of pure ST players can’t be that foreign to you guys. Most teams have a guy or two who basically only covers kicks and never plays from scrimmage except in an emergency. We’ve carried Deshazor Everett in that role for years. To me, the question is whether Apke is THAT good in the role that he’s worth keeping as one of your dedicated specialists — from listening to Rivera talk about him, it seems they think he is, at least. 

I think he is, he’s an awesome gunner. If people would pay attention to how fast he is at getting down on punts and kickoffs and hold their biases against him as a DB at the door for once and just view his special teams play, they’d admire him in that role as we’ve all admired other special teams aces in the NFL and on this team for decades.
 

I remember a guy named Niles Paul who kept making the team for a lot of the same reasons as the 3rd TE but as a special teams ace, it’s amazing how many useless conversations we had in this forum from 2012-17 on whether he should make the team or if we should sign a different TE. 
 

It’s amazing why some fans chose certain players to cry so much about when they make the team and don’t understand why they keep making the team.

[turtle28]

Hope so! 🙏 🤞 

[RSkinGM]

3 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Hope so! 🙏 🤞 

Rivera said -It's all or nothing. Either he's a 100% and plays or he's not and doesn't . I like that ! I think we have more/ better depth than we did last year. BUT sure hope he's 100% . ! Do you realize he would have missed most of the season if this happened say game 1 . This started on June 8th . sheez ! Coming up on 3 months. Much more serious than first indicated - sounded like a "tweak". If this were the over/ under game , I'd go UNDER on him being in the lineup against the Chargers .

Edited September 3, 2021 by RSkinGM
more info

[4209]

19 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Nah, we need to draft a QB to develop. I want us to draft 2 LBs next year but I don’t want it in round 1, I want a QB.

We have 3 young LBs on our roster right now & if Hudson makes strides he could be a starter at WLB this year or next. 
 

I could see Holcomb (SLB), Davis (MLB) & Hudson (WLB) being our starting LBs at some point this season & definitely next season.

I think we need to draft the best player available. If it is QB, RB or LB go for it. Also we shouldn't just focus on the draft to obtain any of these players. FA/ trades I'm open. To me I prefer to trade for a young QB. Rather have a young QB with some experience than drafting a young QB who you have to wait a few yrs. Buy hey whatever works. Just win.

We are one injury/covid from a real problem especially RB and LB. Not all that enthusiastic about bring Mayo back either.. What is the idea here on Defense. Are we meandering down the path of more 5-2 def (nickel) lo. 

[Thaiphoon]

11 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I think he is, he’s an awesome gunner. If people would pay attention to how fast he is at getting down on punts and kickoffs and hold their biases against him as a DB at the door for once and just view his special teams play, they’d admire him in that role as we’ve all admired other special teams aces in the NFL and on this team for decades.

I'll be watching. Because if he sets foot on the field in any other role besides as a gunner, he's worse than a liability. Gunner can be taught. Covering punts is not as difficult as covering receivers.

IMHO it's a wasted spot. But alas, I'm not the coach. I'm a fan watching and expounding on roster moves that make zero sense to me. This is one of them. 

Quote

I remember a guy named Niles Paul who kept making the team for a lot of the same reasons as the 3rd TE but as a special teams ace, it’s amazing how many useless conversations we had in this forum from 2012-17 on whether he should make the team or if we should sign a different TE. 

Might want to check our record (41-54) during that time when when we were keeping guys who can't play their normal positions simply because they are "Special teams aces"

Before you get pedantic and try to school me on how important Specials are, save it. I already know. I get that the 3rd/4th string needs to be good at special teams. I understand how important it is. But you only have so many roster spots and keeping guys who can only cover punts and literally cannot do anything else (like Apke ) is something that we don't have the depth for. Otherwise I'm just going to find 32 track stars and teach them how to do one thing (cover punts) and watch how many make NFL rosters (hint: I bet not many if any).
 

Quote

It’s amazing why some fans chose certain players to cry so much about when they make the team and don’t understand why they keep making the team.

Yes. It is. I've seen everyone on this forum wonder why certain players make the team. You're not excluded from that list either.

[Thaiphoon]

13 hours ago, e16bball said:

I’m no Apke fan, but I pretty strongly suspect that as long as he’s healthy, he’ll play more snaps for the 2021 Football Team than at least 10-15 of the guys they kept on the initial 53. 

I know the idea of pure ST players can’t be that foreign to you guys. Most teams have a guy or two who basically only covers kicks and never plays from scrimmage except in an emergency. We’ve carried Deshazor Everett in that role for years. To me, the question is whether Apke is THAT good in the role that he’s worth keeping as one of your dedicated specialists — from listening to Rivera talk about him, it seems they think he is, at least. 

He's going to play more snaps simply because we're gonna punt a lot.

As for Everett. He could at least play his position. He may not have been starting quality (backup = fill in quality), but at least he wasn't lost when pressed into service.

I'm glad Rivera thinks he's worth keeping. He's the one whose butt is on the line with this roster so the deference goes to him on the makeup. I just agree with @Wozhere on the wisdom of keeping him on the roster. Gunner can be taught a lot easier than playing secondary.

[Thaiphoon]

19 hours ago, turtle28 said:

I honestly think Jamin Davis should be playing WLB this year & the rest of his career but they want him at MLB so. 🤷‍♂️He’s 6’3, 234 he’d be most effective for that position, he has good length and his biggest asset is his speed & his coverage ability.

Give me a thumper two down LB for MLB, have Davis & Holcomb play the LBs in the nickel D.

I want whatever is going to hasten the exit of Bostic off this team. Or at the very least, keep him off the field as much as possible. But I agree here on the WLB. I think Davis can play it better than MLB. But as I think @e16bball said - WLB is easier to fill in the draft/FA than a MLB who has range and WLB skills. So I think putting Davis in at MLB is the smarter move long-term and we'll have to eventually deal with the growing pains of him learning to make the calls.

 

[e16bball]

24 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said:

I want whatever is going to hasten the exit of Bostic off this team. Or at the very least, keep him off the field as much as possible. But I agree here on the WLB. I think Davis can play it better than MLB. But as I think @e16bball said - WLB is easier to fill in the draft/FA than a MLB who has range and WLB skills. So I think putting Davis in at MLB is the smarter move long-term and we'll have to eventually deal with the growing pains of him learning to make the calls.

This is my take, as well. 

I want Davis to play MLB. Not because he’s necessarily our best option there this year — he’s probably not. As much as I don’t care for watching Bostic, he’s probably the best guy on the roster for that role this year, based on his physical play and experience/veteranosity™️. If they sign McKinney, maybe the same is true of him as well. As I said, I expect that Jamin is going to struggle this year to a large degree, though I do hope for some progress and at least some splash plays that show off his upside. 

But what I’m more focused on with Jamin is the long term. I want him to play MLB, because I think he’s capable of playing MLB. He has the speed, the range, the innate ability to get skinny, the room to put on more good weight, and evidently the intangibles — intelligence, work ethic, etc. That they’re having him call the defense from Day 1 speaks volumes to me about how they feel about him from the neck up. 

When you have a guy who can be the centerpiece of your defense, I think you want to stick him at MLB until he fails. And if that happens, then you can move him to WLB, and simplify things and keep him cleaner and just let him play splash football. But there are lots of guys who can play WLB and do those things — there are precious few true impact alpha male MLBs. I think they need to let him try to be that, because I think they believe he can be that. I’m excited to find out if they’re right. We just might not know for sure until a year or two from now. 

[offbyone]

20 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Give me a thumper two down LB for MLB, have Davis & Holcomb play the LBs in the nickel D.

I have an alternative point of view.  MLB is the captain of the defense.  I don't want the captain subbing in and out.  I want an every down guy at MLB.