Will Baker Mayfield cement himself as a top-10 QB this year?

[AkronsWitness]

I mean I thought it was pretty clear he was already in that 8-12 range--but its hard to believe with his 2nd year in the same system (finally) with a coach that actually knows what he is doing that he wont improve just a little bit. 

I dont expect Baker to ever be in that top top tier of QBs with the Mahomes, Rodgers, ect but I think the odds are better than not that he stays in that 2nd tier 5-10 range for the next decade.

Hes already the most accurate deep ball passer in the NFL and can improve some more in his footwork/short pass recognition. If the latter happens this year then I dont see why he wouldnt be considered top 5-8.

Edited September 3, 2021 by AkronsWitness

[AngusMcFife]

Baker Mayfield = Kirk Cousins with Borderline Personality Disorder. 

[AngusMcFife]

8 hours ago, hornbybrown said:

It’s funny how much people hate him and can’t get past that to make a fair view on him.

 

His second half of the year last year was top three in the league. It wasn’t a accident and for the first time in his four years he isn’t learning a new offensive system 

Wow, that sounds familiar. Oh yeah, after 2018 every Browns fan was proclaiming that Baker was awesome because of his 2nd half of the year under Freddie Kitchens, and having continuity with Kitchens going into 2019 would result in him being elite the entire season.

Sub Kitchens with Stefansky and 2018 with 2020 and its the exact same argument. 

Also, how was Baker learning a new offensive system in 2019? In 2018 Kitchens ran the offense, and in 2019 Kitchens ran the offense. 

[Soggust]

1 minute ago, AngusMcFife said:

Wow, that sounds familiar. Oh yeah, after 2018 every Browns fan was proclaiming that Baker was awesome because of his 2nd half of the year under Freddie Kitchens, and having continuity with Kitchens going into 2019 would result in him being elite the entire season.

Sub Kitchens with Stefansky and 2018 with 2020 and its the exact same argument. 

Also, how was Baker learning a new offensive system in 2019? In 2018 Kitchens ran the offense, and in 2019 Kitchens ran the offense. 

I think this is the take a lot of non-Cleveland fans have. Baker is analogous to the Browns as a whole, really.

Could he/they be great? Sure, the pieces are arguably in place. But until they really prove themselves, they will always be the Browns, unfair or not.

[AngusMcFife]

1 hour ago, SBLIII said:

Is Lamar likely to ever be as good as in 2019 again? I doubt it.

You are right his ceiling is higher but I'd rather take the QB who has been consistently very good since he entered the league.

It's obvious that Wilson also caught a lightning in a bottle the first 7 games last year and played above what he is capable off but he is median is still elite and top 5 worthy. 

The sample size on Lamar is still really small.

I would bet that a QB who just completed his age 23 season will improve in the future, for a couple reasons.

Lamar's main weakness - throwing deep outside the numbers - is mainly mechanical. He has already shown that he works his butt off in the offseason to improve his game. I don't see why a supremely gifted athlete like Lamar couldn't slightly improve his mechanics and deep accuracy each year. Do you have a reason why you don't think he can improve this aspect of his game? Or do you think he has another weakness that I haven't mentioned?  

Physically, Lamar is developing as well. Lamar was a skinny kid coming into the league but spends a lot of time in the weight room and is filling out. He is going to become even tougher to bring down as he matures. 

[Rod Johnson]

13 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Wow, that sounds familiar. Oh yeah, after 2018 every Browns fan was proclaiming that Baker was awesome because of his 2nd half of the year under Freddie Kitchens, and having continuity with Kitchens going into 2019 would result in him being elite the entire season.

Sub Kitchens with Stefansky and 2018 with 2020 and its the exact same argument. 

Also, how was Baker learning a new offensive system in 2019? In 2018 Kitchens ran the offense, and in 2019 Kitchens ran the offense. 

Freddie Kitchens doesn't have an offense.  He used Todd Haley's offense in 2018, and in 2019 he used Todd Monken's offense.  He called plays, but it was never his scheme.  The offense was vastly different.

[MWil23]

11 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Also, how was Baker learning a new offensive system in 2019? In 2018 Kitchens ran the offense, and in 2019 Kitchens ran the offense. 

In 2018, Hue Jackson and Todd Haley ran things, and both of them were fired on the same day in October. Freddie Kitchens took over as the OC that year, and in 2019, the Browns hired a guy named Todd Monken (ironically Jameis Winston's former OC), who implemented a very different system, while Kitchens actually called the plays. So, in his first 18 games as a QB, Baker had 3 different HC's and 3 different OC's/offensive systems.

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said:

Freddie Kitchens doesn't have an offense.  He used Todd Haley's offense in 2018, and in 2019 he used Todd Monken's offense.  He called plays, but it was never his scheme.  The offense was vastly different.

 

1 minute ago, MWil23 said:

In 2018, Hue Jackson and Todd Haley ran things, and both of them were fired on the same day in October. Freddie Kitchens took over as the OC that year, and in 2019, the Browns hired a guy named Todd Monken (ironically Jameis Winston's former OC), who implemented a very different system, while Kitchens actually called the plays. So, in his first 18 games as a QB, Baker had 3 different HC's and 3 different OC's/offensive systems.

You beat me by a minute. Total pro move!  

[AngusMcFife]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

In 2018, Hue Jackson and Todd Haley ran things, and both of them were fired on the same day in October. Freddie Kitchens took over as the OC that year, and in 2019, the Browns hired a guy named Todd Monken (ironically Jameis Winston's former OC), who implemented a very different system, while Kitchens actually called the plays. So, in his first 18 games as a QB, Baker had 3 different HC's and 3 different OC's/offensive systems.

Then remind me why were all the Browns fans so ecstatic that Baker would continue his hot streak from 2018 into 2019 then? 

[MWil23]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Then remind me why were all the Browns fans so ecstatic that Baker would continue his hot streak from 2018 into 2019 then? 

Aside from the fact that Baker broke the rookie TD record and it had been 25 years since we had a franchise QB, you assume exponential Year 1 to Year 2 growth, the addition of weapons like OBJ and Kareem Hunt, and that somehow the HC who just 7 months before that was a decent Running Backs position coach, would make all things right. It was a bad assumption, and it showed.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

I think it largely depends on if Baker has plateaued or not, and how good the rookie QB class is. He can be, but it remains to be seen if he will.

[Rod Johnson]

2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Then remind me why were all the Browns fans so ecstatic that Baker would continue his hot streak from 2018 into 2019 then? 

We didn't know we would go empty backfield shotgun with horrendous tackle play 20 times a game.

[AngusMcFife]

4 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Aside from the fact that Baker broke the rookie TD record and it had been 25 years since we had a franchise QB, you assume exponential Year 1 to Year 2 growth, the addition of weapons like OBJ and Kareem Hunt, and that somehow the HC who just 7 months before that was a decent Running Backs position coach, would make all things right. It was a bad assumption, and it showed.

Ok fair enough. I've just seen the Baker hype train before and watch it go off the rails spectacularly, so forgive me for being skeptical. 

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said:

Ok fair enough. I've just seen the Baker hype train before and watch it go off the rails spectacularly, so forgive me for being skeptical. 

I get it to a degree, but if you have 2 minutes or so to be open minded, Mike Greenberg had a nice video (Page 1 I posted it here) explaining some thing that Baker inherited/etc.

[AngusMcFife]

Just now, Rod Johnson said:

We didn't know we would go empty backfield shotgun with horrendous tackle play 20 times a game.

Yes, well maybe now the league has a year of tape on the Stefanski offense, it will regress. 

As far as I can tell, the Browns were 18th in DVOA last year and were outscored by their opponents. That suggests they were a slightly below average team that lucked their way to 11 wins. Yet people are talking about the Browns as Super Bowl contenders. 

I've just seen Browns fans get so hyped up before only for them to fall flat on their face. It's a funny cycle. Sure, this year could be different. Baker could take make a leap!