AkronsWitness Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 8 hours ago, Forge said: Is Baker capable of putting up a top ten season this year? 100%. He's also capable of putting together a season that is closer to 20 than 10. That's why I think it's really difficult to say "cements". I think it would just take a long time for that to actually happen. I mean, look at Kirk. He's been what he has been for quite some time now and people are still not completely in on him being a top 10 guy. I think that entire tier of quarterbacks is simply too volatile year to year to ever really "cement" their position in that grouping, which is why it takes years to actually do...you have to move above that tier. May be a semantical argument regarding the adjective selected, but that is part of the question. Worked for Ryan Tannehill who was liquid garbage in MIA for 7 years and now everyone and their mom says he's a top 10 QB because he hands the ball off to a 2k rusher and hits downfield passes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
43M Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 18 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Worked for Ryan Tannehill who was liquid garbage in MIA for 7 years and now everyone and their mom says he's a top 10 QB because he hands the ball off to a 2k rusher and hits downfield passes Tannehill was pretty solid in Miami until Gase took over. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) Yes. People are too wrapped up into his 2019 season with freddie kitchens calling garbage plays and no OL. Edited September 6, 2021 by sdrawkcab321 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) Being a top 10 QB isn't saying much since that means you're just in the top third of the league. Mayfield may never be "elite", but CLE has been better ever since they drafted him. After Brady Quinn, Brandon Weeden and Johnny Dip****, I don't think any CLE fan will complain about Mayfield. Edited September 6, 2021 by biggie. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said: Yes. People are too wrapped up into his 2019 season with freddie kitchens calling garbage plays and no OL. But it's more than a third of his sample. That's the problem. As I said before...his results have been way too crazy with too much variance to really establish a firm grasp of what he is. The more games he puts on tape, the bigger the sample gets, the less that stretch impacts the overall opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 12 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Worked for Ryan Tannehill who was liquid garbage in MIA for 7 years and now everyone and their mom says he's a top 10 QB because he hands the ball off to a 2k rusher and hits downfield passes He was okay at times in Miami, but honestly, there was a lot of pushback going into last year about the idea that he was a top 10 ish or so QB in the league after such a short sample. Ask the TN fans on here. After the season he had last year, you could certainly put him in the top 10, but you could also say that's just because he's at the top of that tier right now based on his last 18 games or whatever. As I mentioned before, the top of that tier likely does fit into the bottom of the top 10 and Tannehill currently could be considered one of those guys. Given the variance in play and how packed together those guys are, he could very easily put together a season where he slides a couple of spots behind guys who just play better in 2021. Mike Sando's QB tiers had him #13 from NFL people. So I don't think it's as widely locked in that he's a top 10 guy as you're suggesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggie. Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 59 minutes ago, Forge said: But it's more than a third of his sample. That's the problem. As I said before...his results have been way too crazy with too much variance to really establish a firm grasp of what he is. The more games he puts on tape, the bigger the sample gets, the less that stretch impacts the overall opinion Outside of that one season, he's been a fairly consistent QB and CLE has been more competitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, biggie. said: Outside of that one season, he's been a fairly consistent QB and CLE has been more competitive. That one season accounts for more than a third of his sample and the difference in that season and his other games is vast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Forge said: That one season accounts for more than a third of his sample and the difference in that season and his other games is vast. Man, I wonder what could account for the variance and predict which part of the sample might be the more accurate indicator moving forward? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 18 minutes ago, FGK said: Man, I wonder what could account for the variance and predict which part of the sample might be the more accurate indicator moving forward? Soo.... We have to see more like I've been saying since the start of the thread? You can't just take it away. He was bad. Not just the system or the coaching. He was bad as well at times. Also, why is last year a better indicator of his talent? It's a system known for propping up mediocre QBs like Jimmy and Goff and you could argue both had better seasons in their big years. I could easily make the argument that if he performs how he did last year in that system and doesn't get better that he's maybe not someone you want to commit to long term with big money. His season was very solid last year...sometimes good and very good...but nothing that makes me stand up and go crazy. Right now, it basically just sounds like the case is that he's a QB who is reliant on his situation, which congratulations, makes him the same as most starting quarterbacks in the league. Congrats on being a differently styled Derek Carr, I guess? This whole thread is just weird lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Man, the insecurity in this thread is something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 hours ago, Forge said: But it's more than a third of his sample. That's the problem. As I said before...his results have been way too crazy with too much variance to really establish a firm grasp of what he is. The more games he puts on tape, the bigger the sample gets, the less that stretch impacts the overall opinion I think everything is pretty explainable. His rookie year he set the rookie TD record in only 13 games--he looked really good. His 2nd year was a disaster with coaching clearly being the worst in football. His 3rd year he started slow learning a new system and they relied on the run game until he was comfortable. Since week 7 of last year he was a top 3 QB in the NFL after they opened up the playbook. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FGK Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 hour ago, Forge said: Man, the insecurity in this thread is something else Making fun of people when disagreed with or faced with any pushback is super mature though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 9 minutes ago, FGK said: Making fun of people when disagreed with or faced with any pushback is super mature though? I didn't make fun of anyone, but thanks for proving my point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOaktown_56 Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 18 hours ago, AkronsWitness said: Worked for Ryan Tannehill who was liquid garbage in MIA for 7 years and now everyone and their mom says he's a top 10 QB because he hands the ball off to a 2k rusher and hits downfield passes Tanehill does just about everything better than Baker if we're being totally honest. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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