Rod Johnson Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: Yes, well maybe now the league has a year of tape on the Stefanski offense, it will regress. As far as I can tell, the Browns were 18th in DVOA last year and were outscored by their opponents. That suggests they were a slightly below average team that lucked their way to 11 wins. Yet people are talking about the Browns as Super Bowl contenders. I've just seen Browns fans get so hyped up before only for them to fall flat on their face. It's a funny cycle. Sure, this year could be different. Baker could take make a leap! Yeah that's totally possible with Stefanski's offense. Browns got blown out by the Steelers and Ravens early in the season, then never really returned any blow outs because their pass defense was horrendous and also a stretch of horrible weather games. People assume that John Johnson, Troy Hill, Newsome, Delpit, Greedy, and JOK are going to help shore up that miserable pass defense. Browns could win 10-12 games this year and be an improved team honestly, because I agree, it wasn't an 11 win team last year. They did make it to the second round of the playoffs though, which should count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, AngusMcFife said: I would bet that a QB who just completed his age 23 season will improve in the future, for a couple reasons. Lamar's main weakness - throwing deep outside the numbers - is mainly mechanical. He has already shown that he works his butt off in the offseason to improve his game. I don't see why a supremely gifted athlete like Lamar couldn't slightly improve his mechanics and deep accuracy each year. Do you have a reason why you don't think he can improve this aspect of his game? Or do you think he has another weakness that I haven't mentioned? Physically, Lamar is developing as well. Lamar was a skinny kid coming into the league but spends a lot of time in the weight room and is filling out. He is going to become even tougher to bring down as he matures. If you are saying Lamar will have a better season than 2019, I would bet against it. I'm not betting against Lamar being a very good QB for the next 5-7 years however and winning a lot of games potentially even a SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 On 9/2/2021 at 8:53 AM, ClutchDJ said: Can you really say with full confidence that you would wake Russell Wilson over Lamar Jackson heading into 2021? Yes. Without a doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 17 hours ago, FrantikRam said: I'd take Mahomes, Wilson, Allen, Rodgers, Jackson, Watson, Tannehil, Stafford, Cousins, Herbert and Murray over him for sure. I think id take Roethlisberger and Burrow over him too. Imagine Burrow with that OL and run game....yikes. I think Baker is right there with Goff. We were having this same conversation about Goff when the Rams had a top OL and top talent at the skill positions. So I think he's in that 15-20 range, maybe worse. It's hard to imagine a starting caliber QB who wouldn't have success with that talent. Murray???? Burrow still has more to prove than even Baker. Roethlisberger is over the hill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 35 minutes ago, Danger said: Murray???? Burrow still has more to prove than even Baker. Roethlisberger is over the hill. Definitely taking Kyler over Baker. Agree with the other two though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AkronsWitness Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Not top 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 38 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said: Not top 10 Really don’t think that stat proves all that much considering a good amount of QBs are going to be disqualified automatically because they didn’t start their first year, and the fact that his first 4 years in the league (‘18-‘21) will have been in an era with greatly inflated passing stats compared to QBs that played in the 80s, 90s, 00s, etc. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Forge said: Definitely taking Kyler over Baker Ewwww this take is one of the few we don’t agree on. I’m a Kyler hater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 3 hours ago, SBLIII said: If you are saying Lamar will have a better season than 2019, I would bet against it. I'm not betting against Lamar being a very good QB for the next 5-7 years however and winning a lot of games potentially even a SB. Yes it is hard to have a better season than unanimous MVP, that's for sure. But he certainly can improve as a player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tk3 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I need to see Baker crack top 15 before I'll entertain him being top 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I think he could definitely have a top 10 season, and if some of the older QBs (Brady, Ryan for example) regress, then it's possible he could cement himself as a top 10 QB. As of now I think he's in the same group as a bunch of other QBs in that 8-15 range. Not a bad thing, I just have a really hard time separating QBs like Mayfield, Prescott, and Stafford. Then you have up-and-coming guys like Murray, Herbert, and Lawrence, all of whom I'd argue have higher upside than Mayfield. But the Browns have done a great job building around Mayfield and Stefanski was such a great hire, he is who I wanted for the Panthers. So you could also argue that no one is in a better position to maximize his potential than Baker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 31 minutes ago, Tk3 said: I need to see Baker crack top 15 before I'll entertain him being top 10 Aren't you the guy who would take Jimmy G over him? lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawgX Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 20 minutes ago, iknowcool said: I think he could definitely have a top 10 season, and if some of the older QBs (Brady, Ryan for example) regress, then it's possible he could cement himself as a top 10 QB. As of now I think he's in the same group as a bunch of other QBs in that 8-15 range. Not a bad thing, I just have a really hard time separating QBs like Mayfield, Prescott, and Stafford. Then you have up-and-coming guys like Murray, Herbert, and Lawrence, all of whom I'd argue have higher upside than Mayfield. But the Browns have done a great job building around Mayfield and Stefanski was such a great hire, he is who I wanted for the Panthers. So you could also argue that no one is in a better position to maximize his potential than Baker. Did you guys interview him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, MWil23 said: Ewwww this take is one of the few we don’t agree on. I’m a Kyler hater He's fine. I don't think he's a top 5 guy, but he's a competent passer (one of the best deep ball passers in the league since entering), and trying to overcome KK. I think he still has a ceiling he hasn't reach and I think it's one Baker may not have (The running does help a little) . Right now, Baker is just the next iteration of the Kirk / Carr / Jimmy / Goff group. He probably has a stronger arm, but he's not as accurate as Kirk or Carr, most likely. Great with a clean pocket, not so much when under pressure. We've seen that offense prop QBs pretty consistently. Honestly, even not being super bullish on Murray, I don't think Baker is good enough (right now) for me to take the latter. It's not a super high bar that Kyler has to get over, tbh. Kyler has to get better from within the pocket and that's the biggest flaw in his game in my opinion...he's not bad (average to below average in epa per play, I believe), but he's quite often an all or nothing type. He needs to attack the middle area much better. But even if he doesn't, I think he's still on par with where Baker is. Baker's seasons have frankly been far too wildly variable to come to a clear conclusion on where he stands. I'd probably put him in the middle more so than top 10, but as I mentioned before, I think he could easily have a season where he slides into that bottom of the top 10 as he could have a really good season and someone like Kirk not so much. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, DawgX said: Did you guys interview him? I know we scheduled an interview, but I'm not sure if it happened. I think we had already decided on Rhule. I like Rhule a lot but I just loved the offense Stefanski ran in Minnesota and it doesn't hurt to learn pointers from Kubiak. There's only so much you can know about how a coach will do as a HC but I figured that as long as Stefanski was a good leader and knew how to get guys to gel, he would be a slam dunk hire. Still early but the signs are looking good. Edited September 3, 2021 by iknowcool 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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