DawgX Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 15 hours ago, SBLIII said: He was better but he is still very much in the prove it phase. A franchise guy will be great no matter the situation. Even if Baker is great this year this still doesn't prove it because how well will he do without a great OL and Chubb? I think you are hoping he is going from Dak where everyone assumed everything must be perfect around him to where people have a lot more confident in Dak regardless now and consider him a top 7 QB. That's where I could see Baker when things go well for him. If he isn't close to top 5 production this year with Chubb and the OL, I wouldn't have much confidence he actually reaches and sustains those heights longterm. This has to be a really, really good season by Baker because things will likely be more difficult in the future. In terms of stats? I'm not totally sure he will because we'll run the ball too much for him to put up huge numbers. His stats this past year are good, but nothing flashy. That's partly because of the nature of our offense. But unless you watched him every game, you wouldn't see the big time throws he was making, the maturation he was making every week when it comes to things like decision making. I suspect Baker will put up good numbers this season, but I don't expect him to be top five in terms of passing yards, TDs, etc. simply because I doubt he'll throw the ball as much as QBs like Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen, Brady, Stafford, etc. I will say we became much more balanced when it comes to rushing and passing in the second half of the season. We ran the ball a ton the first half of the season for a couple of reasons I imagine: one being that we have the best RB duo in the league, so why not utilize them? Especially when Baker was learning a new scheme in a COVID-shortened offseason with limited TC, no preseason, etc. As Baker became more comfortable in the scheme, we saw Stefanski give him more opportunities to throw the ball. And he went off in the second half of the season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 4 hours ago, hornbybrown said: It’s funny how much people hate him and can’t get past that to make a fair view on him. His second half of the year last year was top three in the league. It wasn’t a accident and for the first time in his four years he isn’t learning a new offensive system Some people will never use objectivity with him, some people will hold Baker accountable for one thing but look the other way when it comes to other guys. It is what it is.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngusMcFife Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 40 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: Lol wow. Clearly you aren't actually aware of Wilson's body of work. Last year was the first time in Wilson's career that he had "great" WRs. Metcalf - last year - is the first time Wilson had a true number one WR. His OL is consistently trash - and Seattle has decided to ignore that Aaron Donald exists for roster construction, which has led to 20% of his sacks coming at the hands of the Rams. Which points to the Idiocracy of Pete Carroll. Meanwhile Baltimore has gone all in on building around Lamar's strengths. Wilson would have loved that commitment. You talk about people having poor football knowledge and then posted this nonsense: "If you give Wilson great WRs, he is only successful if he also has a great rushing attack to set up play action passes. He needs a strong run-blocking O-line and RB or else he just isn't that good." If you're just an LJ stan that's fine but at least make sure you're somewhat aware of Russell Wilson's actual body of work before posting that. I disagree about the O-line, traditionally they have been strong run-blocking but not as good pass blocking. But it's harder to pass block when your QB holds on to the ball forever. So all together, they have been relatively average. Also Golden Tate was definitely a #1. He just wasn't used much in a run-heavy scheme. Lockett and Baldwin with Kearse was a formidable trio. In total he has had strong WR play throughout the years. I don't mean to downplay Russel too much. Obviously he is very good. But there is a big difference between someone who has never sniffed an MVP vote to the 2nd unanimous MVP ever in the league. The ceiling on a great Lamar season is just so much higher than Russel it's not even close. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candyman93 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Yes The top 5-10 is murky and debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I mean, if you would take Cousins or Kyler Murray over Baker, I'd love to hear legitimate arguments as to what they've done to make that the case as of right now. I understand the Herbert love, but I'd like to remind folks that people would have "cemented" Baker after his rookie year as well, but then fell off mightily in year 2. I'm not saying that WILL happen with Herbert, but approach with caution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 I was under the impression he was already a top 10 QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: Funny how its OK for you to make excuses for Lamar yet when we tried to explain when Baker played a game with the whole WR room had Covid, or when we had 2 games with 40 mile an hour wind gust and you all were not hearing it. Good times.... How? Explain because his contract will kick in, you'll lose players, that OL will get worse and right now you are getting the best Chubb you'll ever get. Cleveland might improve at receiver but I don't think it's a given. Baker needs to prove he can produce at an elite level this year. Not necessarily in terms of total yards or TDs but passing the eye test and be efficient to trust him he can get it done when things aren't perfect next to him and his OL is just good or his running game isn't at the top of the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Thread on Baker Mayfield? Deflect onto Lamar Jackson! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: Thread on Baker Mayfield? Deflect onto Lamar Jackson! Hey now, it wasn't even us Browns fans this time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 hours ago, AngusMcFife said: I disagree about the O-line, traditionally they have been strong run-blocking but not as good pass blocking. But it's harder to pass block when your QB holds on to the ball forever. So all together, they have been relatively average. Also Golden Tate was definitely a #1. He just wasn't used much in a run-heavy scheme. Lockett and Baldwin with Kearse was a formidable trio. In total he has had strong WR play throughout the years. I don't mean to downplay Russel too much. Obviously he is very good. But there is a big difference between someone who has never sniffed an MVP vote to the 2nd unanimous MVP ever in the league. The ceiling on a great Lamar season is just so much higher than Russel it's not even close. Is Lamar likely to ever be as good as in 2019 again? I doubt it. You are right his ceiling is higher but I'd rather take the QB who has been consistently very good since he entered the league. It's obvious that Wilson also caught a lightning in a bottle the first 7 games last year and played above what he is capable off but he is median is still elite and top 5 worthy. The sample size on Lamar is still really small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 (edited) 22 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said: -One has a Super Bowl -One can win a game as a passer Wild take coming from a Browns fan considering he's literally done that to the Browns twice in the past two seasons? December 2019: 20/31, 238 3 TDs September 2020: 20/25, 275 3 TDs Why is it always Browns fans with the "Lamar can't throw" takes when your team literally is the one that gets diced up by him the most lmao...some sort of weird reverse psychology/hopeful jynx or something? Maybe some sort of insecurity about Lamar having better passing numbers than Baker. Edited September 3, 2021 by Ray Reed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Ray Reed said: Wild take coming from a Browns fan considering he's literally done that to the Browns twice in the past two seasons? December 2019: 20/31, 238 3 TDs September 2020: 20/25, 275 3 TDs Why is it always Browns fans with the "Lamar can't throw" takes when your team literally is the one that gets diced up by him the most lmao...some sort of weird reverse psychology/hopeful jynx or something? Maybe some sort of insecurity about Lamar having better passing numbers than Baker. Not sure what my fandom has to do with him not being better than Russell Wilson but ok.... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just now, MSURacerDT55 said: Not sure what my fandom has to do with him not being better than Russell Wilson but ok.... Yeah you definitely don't make a comment about Lamar Jackson sucking/not being able to throw in every thread you possibly can. But nice to know there's no retort on him actually lighting you guys up consistently. So think about that next time before you try and do the passive aggressive Lamar takes you do all the time, cause it just makes you look bitter and wrong 😕 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSURacerDT55 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Ray Reed said: Yeah you definitely don't make a comment about Lamar Jackson sucking/not being able to throw in every thread you possibly can. But nice to know there's no retort on him actually lighting you guys up consistently. So think about that next time before you try and do the passive aggressive Lamar takes you do all the time, cause it just makes you look bitter and wrong 😕 I'm not bitter at all, i'm pretty damn excited about my team's future moving forward. It kinda makes you look insecure bringing up the Browns in a Lamar v Russell Wilson convo, just saying. Good day.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Reed Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, MSURacerDT55 said: I'm not bitter at all, i'm pretty damn excited about my team's future moving forward. It kinda makes you look insecure bringing up the Browns in a Lamar v Russell Wilson convo, just saying. Good day.... Lmao it’s a thread about Baker Mayfield though? have a good one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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