2022 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[DreamKid]

4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

The other clear organization fit, even though we’re both skeptical, is certainly Jordan Davis. As of late we’ve seemed to take the athletic specimen regardless of if there are some red flags within their file (as you’ve pointed out). Oweh wasn’t considered a pass rusher and we took him with the idea of developing him. Hollywood and Bateman both have the injury/covid impact their final seasons. Davis gained some weight and lost some endurance, as well as isn’t a pass rushing force. But IFFF he could unlock his pass rushing potential, he’d be right there with Stingley as a clear organizational fit.

I hope we get Lamar protection, so I’m certainly hoping we pursue an elite OL talent, but if we ended up with one of the above two players at our selection, I certainly would be at the very least pleased with our 1st round.

There's clear value in a NT who can also disrupt the pocket and get after the QB(Ngata, Vea, Poe, etc). Which is why those guys went high in the draft. The issue with Davis is he has none of the pass rush numbers behind him that those players did in college, and he was a part time player. A part time player who has effort/motor flags on the downs he did play. 

Despite the rawness and lack of Sacks, Oweh had a really hot motor and good pass rush efficiency numbers hidden behind his now legendary 0 sack total. He also wasn't a part time/role player. The only thing he truly shares with Davis is a historic athletic profile and displayed value against the run. So I don't know if the FO will put them in the same category or view them similarly.

I also wonder how much the memory of Terrance Cody lingers for the organization. Another polarizing NT for a National Championship winning SEC squad, who we picked in the 2nd Round. Dude busted hard for us. Different players, and clearly in different universes athletically- but the organization won't forget that situation anytime soon. 

Obviously I can't now view Jordan Davis through the same exact lens I did previously. Those testing numbers and his potential ceiling can't be ignored. It's still a pick that I'm never going to be high on though. The positional value is awful. It's all projection as to whether or not he could ever contribute vs the pass. And the skillset he does bring isn't even valuable in today's game. Run specialist DIs are incredibly cheap league wide. 

IDK,... In the end it does 'feel' like he could be a Raven . 🤷‍♂️😂

 

lol Thinking about our 1st Round Pick this year is so frustrating. Just doesn't seem like there's any clear path or prospect. Question marks everywhere. 

[coordinator0]

It's tough for players like Davis. The run-stopping advantage is obvious but the nuances with the benefits to the pass-rushing game are contradicting. Yes, players with that size and strength are going to be taking up a lot of space and blockers freeing up things for the actual pass-rushers around them. And linebackers behind them - which is relevant with a guy like Queen.

But they're almost always on some sort of snap count and when do you want those snaps to come? For the most part on running downs, which takes them off the field for passing downs, and negates those peripheral benefits to the pass-rush. 

The team, Macdonald in particular, would need a real clear plan in place with how and when to use Davis for the pick to make sense. It's not just a plug-and-play type of pick that there isn't a lot of thought required. 

[Ray Reed]

The Browns trading for Cooper makes it less likely they take a WR at 13, and instead take a position of need for us (EDGE looking most likely). 

Really hasn’t been a good week for us in that regard. Commanders likely not going QB now either at 11, and who knows if SEA trades for Watson, taking them or the Texans (who have Mills) out of the QB market at pick 9.

Looking more and more likely that all the picks taken ahead of us at 14 are going to be players/positions we were hoping would drop...OT, EDGE, and CB. Not even banking on guys like Johnson or McDuffie or Stingley being available at this point. Going to be really frustrating.

Edited March 12, 2022 by Ray Reed

[DreamKid]

Agree. The combine probably did us no favors either. Plenty of Ravens fans wanted Travon Walker or Trevor Penning, and both might now go Top 10. Seems like the only talents getting pushed down are at positions we don't need too. 

 

[Ray Reed]

Who are some guys you’d like to see us target if we trade down into the 20s? I’d be happy with:

•Devonte Wyatt

•Zion Johnson (projecting to C)

•Andrew Booth

•Daxton Hill

•Bernhard Raimann

Edited March 13, 2022 by Ray Reed

[baltimoreRebel]

PFF has us taking Devonte Wyatt at 14 and Stingley going 15.

I can't imagine a world where we pass on Stingley in that situation and I'm a big Wyatt fan. 

[ravens5520]

2 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

PFF has us taking Devonte Wyatt at 14 and Stingley going 15.

I can't imagine a world where we pass on Stingley in that situation and I'm a big Wyatt fan. 

We dealt with Brown and a lisfranc injury after we drafted him. Corners need that burst and that would need to be not a concern for me to love Stingley. I just believe we will need him to be out there year one. We have holes to fill and multiple guys coming back from injuries. So if he isn’t healthy, do we invest for the future and risk It? His talent would be drafted above Sauce if healthy, but I’m torn. I’d hate to see us waste a pick this year on a big bounce back year for us

[diamondbull424]

14 hours ago, baltimoreRebel said:

PFF has us taking Devonte Wyatt at 14 and Stingley going 15.

I can't imagine a world where we pass on Stingley in that situation and I'm a big Wyatt fan. 

I would throw up. Wyatt is one of the most overrated prospects in this class IMO. Which isn’t to say I think he’s trash, but the guy is 24 years old this month and JUST broke out this season with Jordan Davis having a Heisman hopeful campaign.

Wyatt shouldn’t even be in consideration there; it’s Stingley, Davis, and Karlaftis... easily. The Lisfranc injury does make me nervous, I can’t lie, so I wouldn’t be too upset if we passed on Stingley and he went onto have an excellent career... because the possibility that we select him and he injury busts seems quite possible as well.

That said, Davis (22) and Karlafitis (20-21) are easily the superior prospects IMO due to their youth and potential. Wyatt is largely the finished product. I’d easily take Jordan Davis and feel confident that by age 24 he’s easily the more impactful talent above DeVonte Wyatt.

Karlaftis probably has the second best pass rushing technique in this class and is starting to become underrated IMO. Would love for him to end up a Raven from everything I’ve seen of him.

[DreamKid]

On 3/13/2022 at 11:06 AM, Ray Reed said:

Who are some guys you’d like to see us target if we trade down into the 20s? I’d be happy with:

•Devonte Wyatt

•Zion Johnson (projecting to C)

•Andrew Booth

•Daxton Hill

•Bernhard Raimann

If we trade down it feels like OL would be the near guaranteed pick. Pretty much the opposite situation for our pick at 14, where the value at OL just isn't great.

[DreamKid]

2 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

That said, Davis (22) and Karlafitis (20-21) are easily the superior prospects IMO due to their youth and potential. Wyatt is largely the finished product. I’d easily take Jordan Davis and feel confident that by age 24 he’s easily the more impactful talent above DeVonte Wyatt.

Karlaftis probably has the second best pass rushing technique in this class and is starting to become underrated IMO. Would love for him to end up a Raven from everything I’ve seen of him.

One of the things I'm most curious about with this class is how the FO views Karlaftis. He and Enagbare are the two EDGE players I'd love to see their scouting report on the most. 

I've noticed the fanbase routinely fails to predict the EDGE prospects the FO ultimately ends up picking. I don't know why either. We've had much better luck predicting other positions. 

 

[Ray Reed]

7 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I would throw up. Wyatt is one of the most overrated prospects in this class IMO. Which isn’t to say I think he’s trash, but the guy is 24 years old this month and JUST broke out this season with Jordan Davis having a Heisman hopeful campaign.

Wyatt shouldn’t even be in consideration there; it’s Stingley, Davis, and Karlaftis... easily. The Lisfranc injury does make me nervous, I can’t lie, so I wouldn’t be too upset if we passed on Stingley and he went onto have an excellent career... because the possibility that we select him and he injury busts seems quite possible as well.

That said, Davis (22) and Karlafitis (20-21) are easily the superior prospects IMO due to their youth and potential. Wyatt is largely the finished product. I’d easily take Jordan Davis and feel confident that by age 24 he’s easily the more impactful talent above DeVonte Wyatt.

Karlaftis probably has the second best pass rushing technique in this class and is starting to become underrated IMO. Would love for him to end up a Raven from everything I’ve seen of him.

In run-stopping, sure. But it's also very possible that Jordan Davis never even reaches the pass rush ability Wyatt displays currently (who could also improve...not sure why the assumption is a 21 year old can constantly improve but a 24 year old is maxed out on his potential).

I wouldn't hate the Wyatt pick. And tbh if we're going DL at all in the top 15 of the draft I'd rather take the guy who has shown the pass rushing acumen to consistently pressure inside (at least more consistently than Davis).

[diamondbull424]

12 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

In run-stopping, sure.

Davis is already easily the more impactful run stopper over Wyatt currently and it’s not close. It’s why he was the one in the Heisman conversation and Wyatt was not. So he doesn’t need two years to leapfrog him in that capacity.

12 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

But it's also very possible that Jordan Davis never even reaches the pass rush ability Wyatt displays currently

It’s possible. It’s also possible that Wyatt regressed to the mean and performs more closely to his age 21 and 22 seasons where he wasn’t particularly viewed as an impactful interior threat. In fact Jordan Davis at 21 has shown more pass rush potential than Devonte Wyatt at the same age; Wyatt had 2.5 sacks in 29 games played (8.6%), while Davis has 7 sacks in 41 games played (17%).

Wyatt didn’t show an interior pass rush acumen until his age 23 season and even then he’s got a career high of 2.5 sacks on a season. That’s not particularly impressive to me. Granted sacks aren’t the end all, be all and interior pressure can occur without a sack. But they’re still an indicator of finishing up on a pressure generated.

Meanwhile Davis, while not nearly consistent in technique, while having conditioning issues and playing less pass rush snaps, etc has the same career high of sacks on the year.

12 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

not sure why the assumption is a 21 year old can constantly improve but a 24 year old is maxed out on his potential

It’s not an assumption, it’s a statistical reality. The younger talent is more likely to develop than the older talent; all things considered equal. Wyatt didn’t breakout until he was a grown man playing against a bunch of 18-22 year olds. Why would I anticipate him to display huge growth potential within the NFL when it wasn’t something he displayed within college? I’m using his past development as a future indicator of NFL growth potential. That’s a very reasonable outlook and it also does not completely remove the possibility for him to be an outlier and achieve plenty of growth gains at an older age.

12 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

I wouldn't hate the Wyatt pick. And tbh if we're going DL at all in the top 15 of the draft I'd rather take the guy who has shown the pass rushing acumen to consistently pressure inside (at least more consistently than Davis).

If selecting a top 15 pick, I’d MUCH rather take the guy who has shown greater career pass rush results, is two years younger, was one of the most impactful collegiate players this past season, and just had a historic level of athletic testing. I’d much rather swing for the fences with that guy and hope my coaches (and/or a retained Calais Campbell) can develop him as a pass rusher talent, than to settle on someone who at 24 years old isn’t even an elite draft prospect, but rather just an impact collegiate talent.

So like I said before if we took Devonte Wyatt, I would absolutely hate the pick and just might throw up.

[Ray Reed]

3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Davis is already easily the more impactful run stopper over Wyatt currently and it’s not close. It’s why he was the one in the Heisman conversation and Wyatt was not. So he doesn’t need two years to leapfrog him in that capacity.

It’s possible. It’s also possible that Wyatt regressed to the mean and performs more closely to his age 21 and 22 seasons where he wasn’t particularly viewed as an impactful interior threat. In fact Jordan Davis at 21 has shown more pass rush potential than Devonte Wyatt at the same age; Wyatt had 2.5 sacks in 29 games played (8.6%), while Davis has 7 sacks in 41 games played (17%).

Wyatt didn’t show an interior pass rush acumen until his age 23 season and even then he’s got a career high of 2.5 sacks on a season. That’s not particularly impressive to me. Granted sacks aren’t the end all, be all and interior pressure can occur without a sack. But they’re still an indicator of finishing up on a pressure generated.

Meanwhile Davis, while not nearly consistent in technique, while having conditioning issues and playing less pass rush snaps, etc has the same career high of sacks on the year.

It’s not an assumption, it’s a statistical reality. The younger talent is more likely to develop than the older talent; all things considered equal. Wyatt didn’t breakout until he was a grown man playing against a bunch of 18-22 year olds. Why would I anticipate him to display huge growth potential within the NFL when it wasn’t something he displayed within college? I’m using his past development as a future indicator of NFL growth potential. That’s a very reasonable outlook and it also does not completely remove the possibility for him to be an outlier and achieve plenty of growth gains at an older age.

If selecting a top 15 pick, I’d MUCH rather take the guy who has shown greater career pass rush results, is two years younger, was one of the most impactful collegiate players this past season, and just had a historic level of athletic testing. I’d much rather swing for the fences with that guy and hope my coaches (and/or a retained Calais Campbell) can develop him as a pass rusher talent, than to settle on someone who at 24 years old isn’t even an elite draft prospect, but rather just an impact collegiate talent.

So like I said before if we took Devonte Wyatt, I would absolutely hate the pick and just might throw up.

Yeah idk, every single draft podcast i’ve listened to and all the big time film guys on twitter like Jeremiah and Nagy have all alluded to Wyatt being a superior interior pass rusher. I haven’t watched the all22 or anything so I can’t comment for certain but it’s been a pretty unanimous opinion from what I’ve seen.

 

I like his juice inside. Would be happy with him in the 20s if we trade down.

[diamondbull424]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

Yeah idk, every single draft podcast i’ve listened to and all the big time film guys on twitter like Jeremiah and Nagy have all alluded to Wyatt being a superior interior pass rusher. I haven’t watched the all22 or anything so I can’t comment for certain but it’s been a pretty unanimous opinion from what I’ve seen.

 

I like his juice inside. Would be happy with him in the 20s if we trade down.

I’d be happy with him at the top of the 2nd, I don’t dislike him as a player. I just feel like a top 15 pick should be about securing either an unbelievably high floor talent OR swinging for the fences on someone with All Pro potential.

I’m also not saying Wyatt isn’t currently the superior pass rusher, what I’m saying is Wyatt is 24 years old and is currently superior.

But 25 year old Hayden Hurst was considered superior to 23 year old Mark Andrews. Yet 25 year old Mark Andrews blows 25 year old Hayden Hurst out of the water in all facets.

I feel comparing Wyatt’s pass rush impact to current Davis’ pass rush impact- with Wyatt having had two additional years to develop, train, and study- is far more apples to oranges than apples to apples.

Interior players like Wyatt show up frequently enough in drafts over the last decade, a guy like Davis’ seem to be far more a rare specimen, possibly a once in a decade caliber specimen.

[Ray Reed]

1 minute ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’d be happy with him at the top of the 2nd, I don’t dislike him as a player. I just feel like a top 15 pick should be about securing either an unbelievably high floor talent OR swinging for the fences on someone with All Pro potential.

I’m also not saying Wyatt isn’t currently the superior pass rusher, what I’m saying is Wyatt is 24 years old and is currently superior.

But 25 year old Hayden Hurst was considered superior to 23 year old Mark Andrews. Yet 25 year old Mark Andrews blows 25 year old Hayden Hurst out of the water in all facets.

I feel comparing Wyatt’s pass rush impact to current Davis’ pass rush impact- with Wyatt having had two additional years to develop, train, and study- is far more apples to oranges than apples to apples.

Interior players like Wyatt show up frequently enough in drafts over the last decade, a guy like Davis’ seem to be far more a rare specimen, possibly a once in a decade caliber specimen.

I can get behind this