2022 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[wackywabbit]

I haven't deep dived, but I'd also worry about McDuffie's tape being against Pac12 competition. The play speed is different in the SEC or even big10 where you'd see him against the Ohio State receivers. He's got good, but not great testing speed, which perhaps looked better playing the competition he did. Kind of feel like EDC would go for a bigger swing at 14 overall.

[diamondbull424]

3 hours ago, DreamKid said:

DJ's updated Top 50:

- Karlaftis drops down to 18 and Thibs is now at the bottom of his Top 10.

- Starting to see DJ make big adjustments as we get closer to the draft. 

 

Looks similar to how I’d rank the prospects FTMP. If I knew Stingley was 100% I’d have him higher even with his consistency issues.

3 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

• Cross down in the early 20s...hopefully he somehow falls to us at 14...I think he's a 10 year starter at OT
• People are coming around to McDuffie > Stingley which I've been adamant about for a while now. McDuffie is going to be so, so reliably good IMO
• Interesting to see Wilson all the way up at #6...I wonder if the FO would take him if he fell to 14 and had him rated as high as that...definitely one of the lesser needs on the team
• Jordan Davis' rise is potential good news for @diamondbull424
• I really like the round 2 ILBs like Harris/Chenal/Muma but DJ only has Harris as a top 50 guy
• Linderbaum is plummeting...perhaps he is catching wind of what FOs actually think...should ease some concerns (at least for me) of him being our pick at 14

Yeah, I really like Jordan Davis, but Kenyon Green is the guy I most want to come away with in this draft class. I think he’d be the perfect fit to plug within this offensive scheme and protect Lamar for the next decade plus. He’d also fit very well next to Ronnie Stanley and Patrick Mekari.

Mekari’s weakness will be slowing the initial power rusher and having Green’s strength and awareness in there for support within pass pro would be a huge boon for our OL.

[DreamKid]

Logan Hall(#92) is an absolute animal throughout this whole game.

Good job mocking him to us as a Day 2 pick @drd23. He does scream Raven. Clear scheme fit as a base/pipeline 5T with versatility beyond that, tested awesome, and he just has that AFCN vibe to him. 

It's not a deep DI class, so I think Hall is a near lock for the Top 60-70. Definitely in play for a Day 2 selection by us and imo he should be on everyone's 'predict the pick/players' boards when our draft games start up.

Still pretty raw, so I think we'd be looking at a valuable rotational interior rusher Year 1. His weight and technique aren't quite there yet to where I'd immediately trust him to hold up against the run in our two gap system. Let him continue to mature physically and technically, and in Year 2 or 3 you could easily have a full time plus DI. 

 

 

[wackywabbit]

4 hours ago, DreamKid said:

Cross that low is very interesting, as is Trevor Penning being above him. Would love to have him fall as you said. 

I like what I've seen from Penning. Size, power, blocking with an edge... He has positive signals on dedication to his craft that build hope he could clean up the technique and cut down penalties, but we saw with Brown Jr that we could plug in a big brute on the edge to great effect. I see high upside and high floor. He and Jermaine Johnson are definitely guys who I guess this team will elevate their tape based on style.

Edited April 5, 2022 by wackywabbit

[Ray Reed]

I’m bullish on McDuffie being a future pro bowler. He is relatively new to the position and his hip fluidity and matching is extraordinary IMO, as is his competitive toughness and football IQ. JC Jackson’s arms aren’t as short, but still pretty short for regular CB standards - they’re only 3/4ths of an inch longer than that threshold on the previous page.

Sidenote: it’s nice that comp picks are tradeable now. Could see us packaging that 3rd rounder with our first to move up a few spots if a guy like Thibodeux or Johnson fall. That would essentially just be “our first rounder + losing the worst pass game coordinator in the league (Culley) = pick 11/12”

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Ray Reed

[Ray Reed]

THIS PLEASES ME

[bmorecareful]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

THIS PLEASES ME

He reminds me a lot of Joe Haden in his prime… I’d be cool with that at 14

[diamondbull424]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nfl.com/_amp/2022-nfl-draft-six-round-1-trades-that-would-make-sense
 

Quote

Chiefs TRADE WITH Ravens

 

Chiefs receive: 

• No. 14 overall (Round 1)
• No. 110 overall (Round 4, from NYG)

Ravens receive:

• No. 29 overall (Round 1, from SF via MIA)
• No. 30 overall (Round 1)

No team has traded two first-round picks for a top-15 selection since 2003, when the Saints and Jets both did so to jump into the top 10. Chiefs coach Andy Reid is not shy about making big moves, however, as last year's trade (with the Ravens) for offensive tackle Orlando Brown and last month's decision to send elite receiver Tyreek Hill to Miami both show.

 

Even after signing Marquez Valdes-Scantling and JuJu Smith-Schuster, Reid and GM Brett Veach may have interest in adding a speedy receiver like Wilson or Williams to the mix. With further needs at edge rusher and cornerback, Kansas City could make this deal well in advance of the draft with the knowledge it will gain a true first-round talent at one of those spots, regardless of how the first 14 picks shake out.

This looks similar to what I did in my mock. Not sure which I would prefer. We would keep our 2nd round pick in this scenario though and could still use some of the mid round picks as ammunition to trade up if need be to secure a falling talent in the early 20s.

Though I think I like the idea of not being at another team’s mercy for a player we might truly covet.

Edited April 6, 2022 by diamondbull424

[DreamKid]

6 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

I like what I've seen from Penning. Size, power, blocking with an edge... He has positive signals on dedication to his craft that build hope he could clean up the technique and cut down penalties, but we saw with Brown Jr that we could plug in a big brute on the edge to great effect. I see high upside and high floor. He and Jermaine Johnson are definitely guys who I guess this team will elevate their tape based on style.

I'm comfortably low on him. He's become overrated based on viral "bully" clips and his many deficiencies are being ignored. Him being a penalty machine against low level competition is just the cherry on top. Small school OTs should not go Top 15, more polished and more dominant options than Penning have gone much later. Even Spencer Brown(who many analysts think was the better prospect) from the same school went 93 last year. 

I'd rather burn other picks to trade up for someone like Icky than stay at 14 and pick Penning. He's just such an underwhelming option. 

[DreamKid]

6 hours ago, Ray Reed said:

Sidenote: it’s nice that comp picks are tradeable now. Could see us packaging that 3rd rounder with our first to move up a few spots if a guy like Thibodeux or Johnson fall. That would essentially just be “our first rounder + losing the worst pass game coordinator in the league (Culley) = pick 11/12”

🤷‍♂️

Potentially securing Icky, Thibs, Stingley, Johnson with a small bump up vs staying and picking from that next tier of talent is something the FO will need to think about. 

[Ray Reed]

10 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I'm comfortably low on him. He's become overrated based on viral "bully" clips and his many deficiencies are being ignored. Him being a penalty machine against low level competition is just the cherry on top. Small school OTs should not go Top 15, more polished and more dominant options than Penning have gone much later. Even Spencer Brown(who many analysts think was the better prospect) from the same school went 93 last year. 

I'd rather burn other picks to trade up for someone like Icky than stay at 14 and pick Penning. He's just such an underwhelming option. 

Yeah and even a lot of those viral clips of him starting scraps with OLBs and DL during those pass rushing drills came after he was thoroughly worked by them lol he was losing a lot of reps and then just taking cheap shots aferwards

[RavensTillIDie]

10 hours ago, DreamKid said:

🤷‍♂️

Potentially securing Icky, Thibs, Stingley, Johnson with a small bump up vs staying and picking from that next tier of talent is something the FO will need to think about. 

F it. I'm a sucker for sentiment. Trade up EDC, let's get our future pass rusher!

[DreamKid]

I'm kind of surprised a certain player isn't being talked about more by Ravens fans. Kyle Hamilton. It seems like a lot of the social media "Wouldn't it be crazy if X fell????!!!!" talk(which there's been a ton of with us picking so close to the Top 10) is focused on Thibs, JJ, Cross, etc. Yet there's not really been a peep about Hamilton. Who imo might be the most likely to fall out of all of them.

Safeties literally fall in the draft all the f'n time, even the highly ranked ones. Add in that this is a pretty awesome Safety class and all the teams picking above us can easily grab a solid talent at the top of the 2nd or 3rd- and a feasible scenario in which Hamilton falls presents itself.

A couple points:

-Safety isn't the major need for us it was prior to the Marcus Williams signing, but we're still a club that uses a 3rd Safety on almost every defensive series. 

- Clark and Jefferson are both best around the LOS. We would frequently rotate Jimmy Smith or Brandon Carr over to FS on passing downs to then kick those two down. 

- We're essentially robbing Chuck Clark with the contract we have him on, and despite casual public perception- Safety is one the most valuable positions in the modern game. So no, we wouldn't be over investing in the position and as mentioned above 'diminishing returns' is not something we should worry about either. 

- EDC has tried to or succeeded in acquiring a major DB asset each and every year he's officially been the guy at GM. Thomas, Ramsey, Howard, Williams, etc. A blue chip talent will never be overlooked by him.

- We drafted an overaged CB convert in the 3rd Round last year because the FO felt he was a versatile and talented athlete that could take on different roles within this defense. Guys like Kyle Hamilton are Final Form Freiza of that mold, and it's clearly a skill set we're pursuing. 

- A decent amount of fans are calling for us to draft who they feel the BPA LB option is, Lloyd or Dean depending on who you ask. Relying on young and unproven talent at LB is something that's burned us repeatedly in recent years. Which is why we signed Fort, Bynes, and attempted to sign Wagner. There is no scenario where the FO just reverses on all of that and says "F it, let's roll with Queen and a Rookie for 22'... and use a Top 15 pick to get it done". That's not going to happen. We will 100% sign a Vet at some point and they will start opposite Queen while also likely rotating with Harrison/Welch. What could happen though is the FO places extra value on Hamilton because he does have the skillset to play $LB and WILL for this defense that is rarely in base. Interesting enough, he actually has a much bigger frame than Queen too. 6'4 220 with 33" arms. Turned 21 in March, he'll continue to mature physically. 

- Open field tackling was a major issue for this team last year. The screen game killed us and in general the quick/small ball approach has been a frequent counter to our scheme that looks to suffocate and devour any sort of developing routes. Kyle Hamilton is a competent and confident open field tackler with plus athleticism. So even though we're not maximizing positional value with a CB or OL selection, he immediately boosts our coverage ability/ceiling and addresses a severe defensive shortcoming from 21'.

_____________________

Probably spent much longer than I needed to explaining why we'd come to the very obvious conclusion of drafting Kyle Hamilton should he fall, but I wanted to try and hit it from all angles.

Also it should be noted that there's a large chance some team tries to leap frog us in the event a blue chip/elite talent does fall. Every club knows about the Ravens historic love for falling BPAs, and there are some major trade down candidates picking right up ahead of us. The Steelers, who pick at 20, are bringing Kyle Hamilton in for a visit. They traded up from 20 to 10 in the 2019 Draft to select Devin Bush, and shipped out their 21' first to trade for Minkah. They've been more aggressive as of late and other teams might be as well if a big name starts creeping out of the Top 10-12. 

[DreamKid]

Josh Norris had the most accurate mock draft last year, and just dropped his 22' edition-

 

I'm doubtful of many picks in there, but the guy shows his work and has a strong track record.

[diamondbull424]

8 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I'm kind of surprised a certain player isn't being talked about more by Ravens fans. Kyle Hamilton. It seems like a lot of the social media "Wouldn't it be crazy if X fell????!!!!" talk(which there's been a ton of with us picking so close to the Top 10) is focused on Thibs, JJ, Cross, etc. Yet there's not really been a peep about Hamilton. Who imo might be the most likely to fall out of all of them.

Safeties literally fall in the draft all the f'n time, even the highly ranked ones. Add in that this is a pretty awesome Safety class and all the teams picking above us can easily grab a solid talent at the top of the 2nd or 3rd- and a feasible scenario in which Hamilton falls presents itself.

A couple points:

-Safety isn't the major need for us it was prior to the Marcus Williams signing, but we're still a club that uses a 3rd Safety on almost every defensive series. 

- Clark and Jefferson are both best around the LOS. We would frequently rotate Jimmy Smith or Brandon Carr over to FS on passing downs to then kick those two down. 

- We're essentially robbing Chuck Clark with the contract we have him on, and despite casual public perception- Safety is one the most valuable positions in the modern game. So no, we wouldn't be over investing in the position and as mentioned above 'diminishing returns' is not something we should worry about either. 

- EDC has tried to or succeeded in acquiring a major DB asset each and every year he's officially been the guy at GM. Thomas, Ramsey, Howard, Williams, etc. A blue chip talent will never be overlooked by him.

- We drafted an overaged CB convert in the 3rd Round last year because the FO felt he was a versatile and talented athlete that could take on different roles within this defense. Guys like Kyle Hamilton are Final Form Freiza of that mold, and it's clearly a skill set we're pursuing. 

- A decent amount of fans are calling for us to draft who they feel the BPA LB option is, Lloyd or Dean depending on who you ask. Relying on young and unproven talent at LB is something that's burned us repeatedly in recent years. Which is why we signed Fort, Bynes, and attempted to sign Wagner. There is no scenario where the FO just reverses on all of that and says "F it, let's roll with Queen and a Rookie for 22'... and use a Top 15 pick to get it done". That's not going to happen. We will 100% sign a Vet at some point and they will start opposite Queen while also likely rotating with Harrison/Welch. What could happen though is the FO places extra value on Hamilton because he does have the skillset to play $LB and WILL for this defense that is rarely in base. Interesting enough, he actually has a much bigger frame than Queen too. 6'4 220 with 33" arms. Turned 21 in March, he'll continue to mature physically. 

- Open field tackling was a major issue for this team last year. The screen game killed us and in general the quick/small ball approach has been a frequent counter to our scheme that looks to suffocate and devour any sort of developing routes. Kyle Hamilton is a competent and confident open field tackler with plus athleticism. So even though we're not maximizing positional value with a CB or OL selection, he immediately boosts our coverage ability/ceiling and addresses a severe defensive shortcoming from 21'.

_____________________

Probably spent much longer than I needed to explaining why we'd come to the very obvious conclusion of drafting Kyle Hamilton should he fall, but I wanted to try and hit it from all angles.

Also it should be noted that there's a large chance some team tries to leap frog us in the event a blue chip/elite talent does fall. Every club knows about the Ravens historic love for falling BPAs, and there are some major trade down candidates picking right up ahead of us. The Steelers, who pick at 20, are bringing Kyle Hamilton in for a visit. They traded up from 20 to 10 in the 2019 Draft to select Devin Bush, and shipped out their 21' first to trade for Minkah. They've been more aggressive as of late and other teams might be as well if a big name starts creeping out of the Top 10-12. 

I’ve personally come up off of Hamilton some, especially for the Ravens.

As noted on page 4 of this thread I had started to notice some chinks in his game.

The first his athletic testing supported, which is his suddenness to adjust. He’s not slow but he doesn’t have the elite athleticism to take a false step, adjust, and makeup for it with elite recovery ability. I think this removes the All Pro ceiling that I thought he might have.

The second chink came with his bad angles, he overestimates his speed and takes poor angles consistently at the collegiate level as a tackler. Add in his athleticism being what it is and that’s a problem.

That said he’s still a ballhawk and playmaker, however now that we’ve got Marcus Williams patrolling the secondary, I feel the need to ascertain that type of deterrent isn’t nearly at the same level.

————
So in terms of value within our defense, if I had to choose a #1 S for my board, it would actually be Daxton Hill. He’s got CB size and measurables, the physicality of a SS, the versatility to play NCB, S, $backer, and outside corner. Then you add in the fact that he’s already got familiarity playing within Mike Macdonald’s scheme and displaying all of that aforementioned versatility? And then you factor in his elite athleticism into the equation and pro bloodlines with a brother who is already a Raven? And I can’t help but be a big fan of that particular fit in the event that the value is best present.