2022 CFB Talk/Draft Prospects

[baltimoreRebel]

9 minutes ago, DreamKid said:

I'm starting to back off Center as an option we even pursue in the early rounds. I think Patrick Mekari and Trystan Colon are locked in as C1 & C2. Harbs doesn't want to start Rookie offensive lineman if he can get away with it, and already said we wouldn't be pursuing another Center option in FA. Seems like the Morgan Moses signing resolved our situation at Center for the FO. 

Doesn't mean we won't prioritize OL prospects with versatility though. Kenyon Green, Tyler Smith, Zach Tom, etc. Guys who can play all across the line will still be favored by us. 

I'm not buying it yet. Last year was a nightmare on the offensive line. I'm not counting anything out earlier especially if there's a trade back and Linderbaum is sitting right there. 

That said, I do believe the Ravens have center prospects in the 3rd to 4th they really like. 

[DreamKid]

5 minutes ago, baltimoreRebel said:

I'm not buying it yet. Last year was a nightmare on the offensive line. I'm not counting anything out earlier especially if there's a trade back and Linderbaum is sitting right there. 

When you look at the line, the spot with the most amount of youth and least amount of injuries is Mekari & Colon at Center. Two U25s with starting experience. The team let Boze walk for deal under 3 Mill. IDK, I think they're happy with our internal options. 

Plus, losses at Tackle & Guard have traditionally hurt us much more. In 2019 we were running over all of the league with Skura & Mekari as our Centers. Yet, our recent issues at G/T were crippling. So with Age or Injury flags prominent at Guard & Tackle it's hard for me to picture the FO 'forcing' a fit with a an undersized ZBS Center only type player- all to the cost of a premium pick. 

[DreamKid]

@Ray Reed @drd23 Where are you guys at with Jordan Davis? Curious how everyone is feeling about him now post combine and just a couple weeks away from the draft, so anyone else feel free to weigh in too. I know where @diamondbull424 stands, and IIRC @baltimoreRebel was a fan pre combine even. 

[DreamKid]

I like Ken, but some of his takes in this are wacked out. He mentions a couple times how many stellar options we'll have at Pick 14, by his count 5-6 great players. Even laughed about how deep the talent pool will be at that pick. Didn't elaborate on who those players are, but you have to think he has a massive blind spot either in how he's valuing players or how he thinks the board will fall. 

Screeches about value and arm length for most of the discussion, then ranks Trent McDuffie as his #2 CB in the draft behind Gardner. Despite admitting he'll likely be a slot CB in the NFL. Stingley is his 3rd CB, but he wouldn't be comfortable taking him at 14.... would love to get him in a trade down to late 20s early 30s- yup.

 

[diamondbull424]

14 hours ago, DreamKid said:

I like Ken, but some of his takes in this are wacked out. He mentions a couple times how many stellar options we'll have at Pick 14, by his count 5-6 great players. Even laughed about how deep the talent pool will be at that pick. Didn't elaborate on who those players are, but you have to think he has a massive blind spot either in how he's valuing players or how he thinks the board will fall. 

Screeches about value and arm length for most of the discussion, then ranks Trent McDuffie as his #2 CB in the draft behind Gardner. Despite admitting he'll likely be a slot CB in the NFL. Stingley is his 3rd CB, but he wouldn't be comfortable taking him at 14.... would love to get him in a trade down to late 20s early 30s- yup.

 

Personally I never realized how short Stingley’s arms are as well. He’s only 24th percentile at 30 5/8” himself. Whereas Revis, who he’s often compared to is at 32 5/8” and 82nd percentile length.

I’m trying not to overthink the Stingley evaluation, but along with two years of not playing at an elite level (albeit with excuses for such), it does provide some pause.

I’d certainly take him at 14 if he falls, but I’m unsure enough that maybe I wouldn’t trade up for him. The way I see it, someone between Jermaine Johnson, Jordan Davis, Derek Stingley, Kayvon Thibodeux, or one of the top 3 OL will fall to our pick.

The only player of the bunch that I think I would go up for to obtain would be KT; only 21 years old and still developing yet 90th percentile speed, 80th percentile strength, 70th percentile length; great production, even through injury, great tape where he’s treated as the #1 threat from opposing offenses (double/triple teams), and would be motivated to prove wrong the teams who passed on him.

If KT falls to pick 8 (which I don’t think he will) he’d be my trade up. Seeing very few holes in his game and prospect profile.There’s also very little projection that needs to take place.

What’s more the more corners I watch, the more comfortable I feel we could double dip in the 3rd round and probably get two physical quality cover corner options with guys like Alontae Taylor, Zac McCallum, and Armour-Davis.

Though if we stay at 14, I’d be comfortable taking what the board gives us.

EDIT: This assumes that at least 1 WR and 1 QB go in the top 13 picks, which I would have to imagine the Jets will go WR or will be willing to trade down if they feel it’s too early for a WR. They’ll either be, along with the Falcons, a potential trade partner or they should be picking a position that benefits our chances of landing one of the above options.

Edited April 14, 2022 by diamondbull424

[Ray Reed]

17 hours ago, DreamKid said:

@Ray Reed @drd23 Where are you guys at with Jordan Davis? Curious how everyone is feeling about him now post combine and just a couple weeks away from the draft, so anyone else feel free to weigh in too. I know where @diamondbull424 stands, and IIRC @baltimoreRebel was a fan pre combine even. 

To me it's much more a matter of positional value than the player. I think he's dominant at what he does, but nothing I've seen out of him suggests - to me at least - that a big jump in the pass rush department should be expected at the next level. So in my eyes he's a phenomenal 2 down run stuffer - which is fine if we were picking at say 24-32 - but at 14, I just don't like it. With the rare top-half opportunity we're getting this year I'd really like this pick to be at a premium position. I'm still riding the McDuffie at 14 train, even if Stingley is there. 

If we trade down to the 20s, Davis would be much more palatable for me personally.

 

[diamondbull424]

5 minutes ago, Ray Reed said:

To me it's much more a matter of positional value than the player. I think he's dominant at what he does, but nothing I've seen out of him suggests - to me at least - that a big jump in the pass rush department should be expected at the next level. So in my eyes he's a phenomenal 2 down run stuffer - which is fine if we were picking at say 24-32 - but at 14, I just don't like it. With the rare top-half opportunity we're getting this year I'd really like this pick to be at a premium position. I'm still riding the McDuffie at 14 train, even if Stingley is there. 

If we trade down to the 20s, Davis would be much more palatable for me personally.

 

What’s the good tape of McDuffie to watch?

Working my way through this and so far I’m no particularly seeing anything special/elite. Won’t right him off yet, but as it stands I was more impressed with the Clemson CB, though I admittedly haven’t deep dived the CB position.

 

What I will say is that so far, I’m not seeing enough from McDuffie, Booth, and/or Stingley for me to feel they’re in another league from the far more versatile Daxton Hill who definitely can play nickel, safety, and $LB… and probably also outside corner considering his measurables and athleticism.

Considering the familiarity already with our DC, if the team isn’t a fan of Davis positional value and/or a guy like KT doesn’t fall into trade up range, then I think I’d prefer to trade down and secure Daxton Hill and Kenyon Green with our first two picks. Two guys that I see as being near elite and have elite versatility.

But again, I need to dive deeper and get more of a feel for these guys.

[Ray Reed]

24 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

What’s the good tape of McDuffie to watch?

Working my way through this and so far I’m no particularly seeing anything special/elite. Won’t right him off yet, but as it stands I was more impressed with the Clemson CB, though I admittedly haven’t deep dived the CB position.

 

What I will say is that so far, I’m not seeing enough from McDuffie, Booth, and/or Stingley for me to feel they’re in another league from the far more versatile Daxton Hill who definitely can play nickel, safety, and $LB… and probably also outside corner considering his measurables and athleticism.

Considering the familiarity already with our DC, if the team isn’t a fan of Davis positional value and/or a guy like KT doesn’t fall into trade up range, then I think I’d prefer to trade down and secure Daxton Hill and Kenyon Green with our first two picks. Two guys that I see as being near elite and have elite versatility.

But again, I need to dive deeper and get more of a feel for these guys.

 

 

To me he can be an elite cover corner in the NFL from the slot or on the boundary despite his size. Even though he played in a heavy zone scheme he has all the attributes to be a top flight man-to-man guy as well IMO. I think he's an explosive athlete, smart, and extremely focused/has the right attitude and temperament to play the position at a high level for the next decade.

[wackywabbit]

4 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

Working my way through this and so far I’m no particularly seeing anything special/elite. Won’t right him off yet, but as it stands I was more impressed with the Clemson CB, though I admittedly haven’t deep dived the CB position.

All I did was watch a few videos, but this is exactly what I felt. I didn't see what's special enough to go top half first, and there weren't many games against top tier opposition.

Also agree that Booth looked equally or more "impressive" as athlete in the little I watched.

Edited April 14, 2022 by wackywabbit

[Ray Reed]

1 hour ago, wackywabbit said:

All I did was watch a few videos, but this is exactly what I felt. I didn't see what's special enough to go top half first, and there weren't many games against top tier opposition.

Also agree that Booth looked equally or more "impressive" as athlete in the little I watched.

That's the problem with where we're picking relative to this draft class, though. No one after the first 8-10ish top guys are "special enough". After about 8-10 it drops off to "could be very good" very precipitously. And I have much more faith in McDuffie reaching his "very good" ceiling & building on that than a guy like Penning, Wyatt, and some of the other guys frequently mocked in that 12-20 range.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Ray Reed

[BareYourTeeth]

 

 

 

[baltimoreRebel]

23 hours ago, DreamKid said:

@Ray Reed @drd23 Where are you guys at with Jordan Davis? Curious how everyone is feeling about him now post combine and just a couple weeks away from the draft, so anyone else feel free to weigh in too. I know where @diamondbull424 stands, and IIRC @baltimoreRebel was a fan pre combine even. 

My gut still tells me that if Jordan Davis is there at #14 the Ravens will have a hard decision to make. He could anchor our D line for years to come. I'm a huge fan of the kid still. 

Edited April 14, 2022 by baltimoreRebel

[wackywabbit]

1 hour ago, Ray Reed said:

That's the problem with where we're picking relative to this draft class, though. No one after the first 8-10ish top guys are "special enough". After about 8-10 it drops off to "could be very good" very precipitously. And I have much more faith in McDuffie reaching his "very good" ceiling & building on that than a guy like Penning, Wyatt, and some of the other guys frequently mocked in that 12-20 range.

I hear what you are saying, but I think it is highly unlikely that is the outcome. I don't see EDC picking McDuffie at 14 in any scenario. EDC has very good security and done a fine job succeeding one of the best GMs of all-time. HOWEVER, it is very easy to ask what is the best draft pick Decosta has made going into his 4th draft* and contrast that to the fact that Ozzie Newsome drafted pro bowlers/AP/DPOY/OPOY/MVP/SBMVP with literally most of his first round picks. I don't see a high floor "double" swing at 14**.

If we are assuming we pick at 14 it has to be outside of the traditional ranking/positions in the mocks. It has to be someone like Jordan Davis (who I would have named before these last couple posts in this thread) or gamble on Penning's athletic profile, or even take a Jameson Williams. If Jameson Williams has like a 50% outcome recovery on his injury then he has more value than (what I am wildly guessing) is a 80-90% outcome on Trent McDuffie's ceiling development. All he needs to do is get healthy to be a blue chip player/asset. Also we can't consider WR a crowded or solved problem because we picked up Brown's 5th year and after Bateman year 1. If Williams hits we can always trade Hollywood for good value that young speedy deep threats have (despite 8's feelings). 

*I'm higher on Oweh than most and that's why I lessen edge as a first round probability unless BPA (like Jermiane Johnson). It'd be hard for me to favor a selection at that spot over OO for our future

**I actually think its more probable than not that we trade up OR down this year. Would definitely take the bet on even odds for a first round trade

Edited April 14, 2022 by wackywabbit

[wackywabbit]

Whether we are taking him or trading down to a team jumping the Eagles or whoever for him... we can't settle for taking an "ok" prospect if this kid is still on the board.... so add that to your 14 names for our original draft slot.

[Ray Reed]

30 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I hear what you are saying, but I think it is highly unlikely that is the outcome. I don't see EDC picking McDuffie at 14 in any scenario. EDC has very good security and done a fine job succeeding one of the best GMs of all-time. HOWEVER, it is very easy to ask what is the best draft pick Decosta has made going into his 4th draft* and contrast that to the fact that Ozzie Newsome drafted pro bowlers/AP/DPOY/OPOY/MVP/SBMVP with literally most of his first round picks. I don't see a high floor "double" swing at 14**.

If we are assuming we pick at 14 it has to be outside of the traditional ranking/positions in the mocks. It has to be someone like Jordan Davis (who I would have named before these last couple posts in this thread) or gamble on Penning's athletic profile, or even take a Jameson Williams. If Jameson Williams has like a 50% outcome recovery on his injury then he has more value than (what I am wildly guessing) is a 80-90% outcome on Trent McDuffie's ceiling development. All he needs to do is get healthy to be a blue chip player/asset. Also we can't consider WR a crowded or solved problem because we picked up Brown's 5th year and after Bateman year 1. If Williams hits we can always trade Hollywood for good value that young speedy deep threats have (despite 8's feelings). 

*I'm higher on Oweh than most and that's why I lessen edge as a first round probability unless BPA (like Jermiane Johnson). It'd be hard for me to favor a selection at that spot over OO for our future

**I actually think its more probable than not that we trade up OR down this year. Would definitely take the bet on even odds for a first round trade

I agree with pretty much everything you said that I bolded in your first paragraph about EDC's drafts so far/him really needing to nail this pick; I think the only disconnect is that I see McDuffie as a lot better prospect than you do. I think he could be a HR, not just a double. I think he's immensely better than just "ok". But that actually kind've tracks with his general assessment...I've seen some draftniks have him up at CB2, and some as low as like CB5. Really just depends on how the FO/league sees him in all honesty...really anyone's guess. He could go 12ish to the vikes or fall down to the bills in the mid 20s and neither would shock me all that much. And imo guys like Penning or Davis have just as much if not more "solid but not spectacular" potential than McDuffie but again, that's just a difference of opinion in prospects which happens all the time.

I'm also all for taking a WR like Williams like you said depending on how high the FO has graded him. I'm lower on Hollywood than most Ravens fans - I think he's a fine #2 but not much more - and definitely think that room could stand to be upgraded. Especially if/when he leaves and we're left with just Bateman/Duv/Wallace. I would even be happy with Garrett Wilson in all honesty depending on how the board falls.

Definitely going to be one of the more interesting drafts for us in a while.

Edited April 14, 2022 by Ray Reed