EDGE rushers

[Ozzy]

5 minutes ago, THE DUKE said:

Zach Harrison should in no way be a first round pick, but I could see a team taking him on day 2 because of "potential" assuming he has a good combine.  Smith, Hamilton, and Cornell are all Day 3 guys and wouldn't be shocked if 1 or 2 end up UDFA.

If Harrison works out great he maybe could sneak in but yeah ultimately probably should not be a 1st rounder and probably a 2nd rounder.  Cornell was a 7th round pick and Hamilton was a 3rd rounder in 2020.  Tyreke I think has a lot of ability and will be picked probably middle rounds.  Still Hutchinson has more talent in terms of top end guys especially Ojabo opposite him than Young had opposite him during that final year, Young had good depth around him but not better top end talent.

[THE DUKE]

7 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Cornell was a 7th round pick and Hamilton was a 3rd rounder in 2020

Duh, I was thinking of Garrett instead of Hamilton. Garrett's stock is down vs where it was last year when he decided to come back. Cornell I just forgot he was gone.  Smith made steady improvement in his time at Ohio State, but never made a big jump up.  I'd be surprised is Smith was a day 2 guy, but I guess sneaking into the back of rd 3 is a possibility.

[jebrick]

11 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Hard to say

 

Chase Young 12 games played, 46 total tackles, 21 TFLs, 16.5 sacks, 3 PDs, 7 forced fumbles and Heisman nomination.

 

Aidan Hutchinson 13 games played (more to come), 58 total tackles, 15.5 TFLs, 14 sacks, 3 PDs, 2 forced fumbles and Heisman nomination.

 

 

Hutchinson had 1 sack, 1 TFL and 2 QB hurries against Iowa but watching the game it seemed like he pressured the QB way more than 2 times.  He was constantly in the backfield it seemed and arrived to the QB very quickly.  So hard to tell but stat wise Young has him beat a little in terms of production with arguably less talent around him.  Ojabo could be a 1st round pick, not sure Zach Harrison will be but is possible, maybe and Tyreke Smith will probably not be and Hamilton was not either or Cornell on Ohio State.  

Both dominated games with their play no question, granted Chase Young never played against Michigan than final game and what Hutchinson did against Ohio State will be legendary with 3 big time sacks.  Also Hutchinson did great in the Big Ten title game, not sure Young was as productive in their Big Ten title game.  If Hutchinson plays well against Georgia and maybe beyond that would be really impressive.  

I was speaking in more of the technical aspects of rushing the passer than just raw physical ability. IMHO, Hutchinson is more mature in his pass rushing technique than Young was coming out.

[MSURacerDT55]

4 hours ago, Hunter2_1 said:

And dominate like Nick and Joey Bosa of the Ohio State Buckeyes, which according to Sam Webb of the Michigan Insider is a comparison that’s been floating around Michigan football practice:"

Not sure if I would be quoting him, he is a turd that floats anything out to be relevant.  

On 12/4/2021 at 1:06 PM, MagicMT said:

I'd draft Hutchinson before Kayvon to be honest. He is such a wrecking ball and as you mentioned, he has a +++ motor. 
I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up better than the Bosa bros. 

The Bosas had ELITE technique and could bend, Hutchinson is an all out effort guy with good technique, he is a power rusher, two differernt genres of pass rusher.

 You'll get fired for taking that over a guy who actually has elite physical traits (Kayvon).  These NFL OT's are bigger, faster and stronger, they will be more equipped for the power rush than a guy who is elite physically who as technique 

On 12/5/2021 at 12:02 PM, .Buzz said:

Think it’s definitely Hutchinson above Thibs now. What he’s putting on tape this year is incredible. Motor+physical traits are off the charts too.

This is an example of a reactionary society, i'm sorry I don't see any elite physical traits besides being very physical. Being highly active and actually being an actual physical freak are two different things and I think people are getting caught up in this.

 

 

11 hours ago, jebrick said:

IMHO, Hutchinson has more technical skill than Chase Young at this point in his career.  Not as good as Myles Garrett.

This is flat out not true, but then again, you are entitled to your opinion. 

1 hour ago, THE DUKE said:

Zach Harrison should in no way be a first round pick, but I could see a team taking him on day 2 because of "potential" assuming he has a good combine.  Smith, Hamilton, and Cornell are all Day 3 guys and wouldn't be shocked if 1 or 2 end up UDFA.

I agree, but then again, he is a comparable athlete to Jason Oweh and he went in the 1st and I think Harrison is way better vs the run. I think he has a big bowl game and destroys the combine with like a 4.50 or lower it will be hard to keep him out of the 1st.

I think Tyreke Smith will be a mid round pick but could be like Johnathan Cooper and be a gem, he just needs to stay healthy, he is a good football player.

[.Buzz]

14 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

 

This is an example of a reactionary society, i'm sorry I don't see any elite physical traits besides being very physical. Being highly active and actually being an actual physical freak are two different things and I think people are getting caught up in this.

 

 

This is flat out not true, but then again, you are entitled to your opinion. 

Umm…

Not like I’m just throwing random **** at a wall.

[MSURacerDT55]

42 minutes ago, jebrick said:

I was speaking in more of the technical aspects of rushing the passer than just raw physical ability. IMHO, Hutchinson is more mature in his pass rushing technique than Young was coming out.

This is flat out not true this is an assumption, Chase Young's technique was damn near elite, you never saw him rush without a move. 

 

[MSURacerDT55]

4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Ok…

Not like I’m just throwing random **** at a wall. Guess we’ll see how he stacks up in a couple months.

Come on man, you know like I know, all of these schools throw out these inflated numbers to pump their guys up. I go by what my eyes tell me, he looks like a 4.71 guy which isn't bad at all for a guy his size.

[.Buzz]

5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Come on man, you know like I know, all of these schools throw out these inflated numbers to pump their guys up. I go by what my eyes tell me, he looks like a 4.71 guy which isn't bad at all for a guy his size.

You think they fibbed his vertical? Even if the 3 cone and shuttle time is inflated those are still going to be very good numbers.

Not sure what your angle is. Point is he’s a damn good athlete and very technically sound while having an elite motor. He is and should be viewed right up there with Thibodeaux.

Certainly didn’t deserve that initial response.

[MSURacerDT55]

13 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

You think they fibbed his vertical? Even if the 3 cone and shuttle time is inflated those are still going to be very good numbers.

Not sure what your angle is. Point is he’s a damn good athlete and very technically sound while having an elite motor. He is and should be view right up there with Thibodeaux.

Certainly didn’t deserve that initial response.

You know what? I'm going to leave this one alone because apparently on one can critique Hutchinson but I'll just say this. Does very good athlete + technically sound + elite motor = #1 pick?

And pardon my temperament but I just can't stand when people use words like "off the charts athleticism, or freaky, or elite" to describe him when its not really true. He is more Jared Allen (Damn good, borderline HOF) than he is someone with real elite physical traits like Von Miller or a Julius Peppers.

Edited December 8, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[.Buzz]

17 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

You know what? I'm going to leave this one alone because apparently on one can critique Hutchinson but I'll just say this. Does very good athlete + technically sound + elite motor = #1 pick?

And pardon my temperament but I just can't stand when people use words like "off the charts athleticism, or freaky, or elite" to describe him when its not really true. He is more Jared Allen (Damn good, borderline HOF) than he is someone with real elite physical traits like Von Miller or a Julius Peppers.

I’m definitely sitting here saying he can’t deserve critiques or people can’t have their opinion here…

Maybe just don’t do that exact same thing yourself (especially when there’s evidence/info backing said claim).

But regardless, will be interesting to see come the combine how he measures up. Definitely not saying he’s as physically gifted as Thibs.

[Adrenaline_Flux]

I'm just wrapping my mind around someone saying a prospect isn't worth #1 and then turning around and comparing them to Jared Allen. 

[Jeezla]

I'll still take Thibodeaux over Hutch. Just looks like the more natural bender, and a better first step on the eyeball test. Also has 34 1/8" arms and 10" hands and certainly isn't going to have a bad combine, it just won't be Bruce Feldman freak list level. He ran 4.67 with a 4.2 short shuttle at 236 lbs at sparq testing, and I don't think he's gotten slower with the added 20 lbs. 

They'll probably both be good though.

Edited December 8, 2021 by Jeezla

[lark25]

12 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

You know what? I'm going to leave this one alone because apparently on one can critique Hutchinson but I'll just say this. Does very good athlete + technically sound + elite motor = #1 pick?

And pardon my temperament but I just can't stand when people use words like "off the charts athleticism, or freaky, or elite" to describe him when its not really true. He is more Jared Allen (Damn good, borderline HOF) than he is someone with real elite physical traits like Von Miller or a Julius Peppers.

If you run a 4.7 at 270lbs with a 35 or 36 inch vert and a 6.8s 3 cone that's freaky. Julius Peppers is a freak among freaks.

Id see Hutchinson being a top 3-5 for this class level RAS SParq guy but not a Peppers or Von Miller.

Still very good to borderline elite athleticism plus power, motor and desire is top 5 pick in my mind.

[MSURacerDT55]

13 hours ago, lark25 said:

If you run a 4.7 at 270lbs with a 35 or 36 inch vert and a 6.8s 3 cone that's freaky. Julius Peppers is a freak among freaks.

Id see Hutchinson being a top 3-5 for this class level RAS SParq guy but not a Peppers or Von Miller.

Still very good to borderline elite athleticism plus power, motor and desire is top 5 pick in my mind.

I just hate when people move the goal posts to fit guys in to fit their narrative of what is freaky and what is really good, this is why the term freaky is watered down now.

Secondly, I take those numbers with a grain of salt until I see the official times.

Edited December 9, 2021 by MSURacerDT55

[.Buzz]

6 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

I just hate when people move the goal posts to fit guys in to fit their narrative of what is freaky and what is really good, this is why the term freaky is watered down now.

I mean I don’t even think anyone said “freaky”, did they? I said off the charts personally, which if he tests as well or close to those numbers posted would be correct. 
 

You’re the one bringing up comps to all time elite athletes at the position, not anyone else lol. Unless again, I missed it.