Week 3 GDT: Raiders (2-0) vs. Dolphins (1-1) - Dolphin sashimi is on the menu

[Jeremy408]

13 minutes ago, SimonGruber said:

I thought he was a bum Straight up go Solomon happy to eat crow 

I thought it was a stupid idea when they first signed him. But some thing I do is whenever they sign someone that was like a failed draft pick I always go look up what Mike Mayock and Gruden said about the player when they were coming out. So I did that and then found out that he didn’t even play defensive end in college. Which means that the Niners literally drafted him third overall to play him at something else that he had never played it ever before coming into the league. That’s where I got the idea that there was potential there

[oakdb36]

I don't see any problem with Gruden's playcalling on the last 2 drives in the 4th.

1st drive is run, pass, pass.

2nd drive - there's a bit more than 4min left in the game and the Dolphins have scored 3 points since the 1st quarter. The Raiders are up by 8. He goes run, run, pass (sack on a blitz). The Dolphins find a way to score with 2 seconds left and to tie the game on a 2 pt conversion. I'm sure analytics would say it was extremely unlikely a team who had scored 3 points in the last 40 minutes would be able to score a TD and the 2 point conversion.

[Darbsk]

27 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't see any problem with Gruden's playcalling on the last 2 drives in the 4th.

1st drive is run, pass, pass.

2nd drive - there's a bit more than 4min left in the game and the Dolphins have scored 3 points since the 1st quarter. The Raiders are up by 8. He goes run, run, pass (sack on a blitz). The Dolphins find a way to score with 2 seconds left and to tie the game on a 2 pt conversion. I'm sure analytics would say it was extremely unlikely a team who had scored 3 points in the last 40 minutes would be able to score a TD and the 2 point conversion.

The second drive I have an issue with. I think the first run was for minus 2 then we run for one both up the gut where we've not had success all day and never looked like gaining any ground. The trouble with that is that everyone here knew it was coming, the Dolphins players knew it was coming and the Dolphins coaches knew it was coming. That puts us in an obvious passing situation on 3rd and 11 and if they stop us as they did it's a big momentum shift IMO. 

I think a playaction pass on 1st down or a screen would have been the way to go. You can still then run the ball on second down if it's incomplete to start the clock again and the defence is not sure that it's going to be a run which gives you a better chance if you are going to run.

The logic that if we just run clock and punt because the opposition hasn't done anything for 40 minutes does not take into account the prevent D and letting the offence get in rhythm which happens often, especially with us. Just go for the jugular and finish them off I think, if you don't succeed you give them an additional 40 seconds which means nothing really as they went down and scored anyway. If you're going to play such passive prevent defence then you'll need less than a minute left to be effective really.

Personally I'd trust our guys to win rather than trust theirs to lose. Put the ball in Carr's hands and show belief in your best players. I'm sure the players will appreciate that rather than say well, the Dolphins will probably screw up some time this drive. Our O is better than our D so trust the better unit not the weaker one!

Edited September 27, 2021 by Darbsk

[Jeremy408]

25 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't see any problem with Gruden's playcalling on the last 2 drives in the 4th.

1st drive is run, pass, pass.

2nd drive - there's a bit more than 4min left in the game and the Dolphins have scored 3 points since the 1st quarter. The Raiders are up by 8. He goes run, run, pass (sack on a blitz). The Dolphins find a way to score with 2 seconds left and to tie the game on a 2 pt conversion. I'm sure analytics would say it was extremely unlikely a team who had scored 3 points in the last 40 minutes would be able to score a TD and the 2 point conversion.

The thing I was saying during the game was that they were obviously trying to waste all three of the dolphins time out and make them have to actually throw the football down the field (something they weren’t comfortable with doing the whole game). Anyone can say they should’ve been aggressive in past but the problem with that is say we pass all three downs then we basically call time out for them if we don’t get it.
 

Like I mentioned before the problem wasn’t that. There are other factors that you have to think about. Like Carlson  missing an extra point which would’ve easily put the game away or those key penalties on defense that kept Drive alive when reality they would’ve been off the field and nobody would’ve cared.
 

This is me talking after I’ve had time to sleep on it in real time I was mad to that the game was way closer than it should’ve been lol

[oakdb36]

1 minute ago, Darbsk said:

The second drive I have an issue with. I think the first run was for minus 2 then we run for one both up the gut where we've not had success all day and never looked like gaining any ground. The trouble with that is that everyone here knew it was coming, the Dolphins players knew it was coming and the Dolphins coaches knew it was coming. That puts us in an obvious passing situation on 3rd and 11 and if they stop us as they did it's a big momentum shift IMO. 

I think a playaction pass on 1st down or a screen would have been the way to go. You can still then run the ball on second down if it's incomplete to start the clock again and the defence is not sure that it's going to be a run which gives you a better chance if you are going to run.

The logic that if we just run clock and punt because the opposition hasn't done anything for 40 minutes does not take into account the prevent D and letting the offence get in rhythm which happens often, especially with us. Just go for the jugular and finish them off I think, if you don't succeed you give them an additional 40 seconds which means nothing really as they went down and scored anyway. If you're going to play such passive prevent defence then you'll need less than a minute left to be effective really.

Personally I'd trust our guys to win than trust theirs to lose. Put the ball in Carr's hands and show belief in your best players. I'm sure the players will appreciate that rather than say well, the Dolphins will probably screw up some time this drive.

I just think the odds are better if you play the clock than the 1st down in this situation.

[NCOUGHMAN]

12 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

The thing I was saying during the game was that they were obviously trying to waste all three of the dolphins time out and make them have to actually throw the football down the field (something they weren’t comfortable with doing the whole game). Anyone can say they should’ve been aggressive in past but the problem with that is say we pass all three downs then we basically call time out for them if we don’t get it.
 

Like I mentioned before the problem wasn’t that. There are other factors that you have to think about. Like Carlson  missing an extra point which would’ve easily put the game away or those key penalties on defense that kept Drive alive when reality they would’ve been off the field and nobody would’ve cared.
 

This is me talking after I’ve had time to sleep on it in real time I was mad to that the game was way closer than it should’ve been lol

Or maybe the pick 6?

 

[Darbsk]

31 minutes ago, oakdb36 said:

I just think the odds are better if you play the clock than the 1st down in this situation.

That's fair, I just would like to see us try after making a huge stop and getting the ball in our court to not give them even a chance to come back. Stay with the hot hand.

I always like to think of these things as if I was in the other teams shoes, so given that, if you were the Dolphins coach would you rather us drain clock and give you the ball back or would you rather see the opposition go for the first downs and try and win the game outright there and then?

Edited September 27, 2021 by Darbsk

[reddevil]

‘Raiders leaders in total pressures according to PFF vs the Dolphins. 

Crosby-6
Ngakoue-6
Thomas-5
Philon-4
Ferrell-2

31 total this week.’
 

Everyone is getting in on the act….

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, oakdb36 said:

I don't see any problem with Gruden's playcalling on the last 2 drives in the 4th.

1st drive is run, pass, pass.

2nd drive - there's a bit more than 4min left in the game and the Dolphins have scored 3 points since the 1st quarter. The Raiders are up by 8. He goes run, run, pass (sack on a blitz). The Dolphins find a way to score with 2 seconds left and to tie the game on a 2 pt conversion. I'm sure analytics would say it was extremely unlikely a team who had scored 3 points in the last 40 minutes would be able to score a TD and the 2 point conversion.

They were conservative calls that were easy to defend. Nothing egregious with the calls. The execution however sucked. The Oline was not up to the task and Miami quickly made the stops.

Gruden wants to impose his will on people late and run the clock out. He simply has to realize his Oline is not built for that and put the ball in his play makers hands. 

[Darbsk]

5 hours ago, Jeremy408 said:

Just saying: Solomon Thomas is somehow leading the team in Sacks rn 😂

Looks like you were right he was well worth the risk. I did really like him as a prospect in the draft a few years ago but that was under the premise that he was an exclusive 3T or pass rushing DT. That is clearly where he fits best and we seem to have a DC who can see that which is a good sign. Another example of playing a player to his strengths.

[MrOaktown_56]

7 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Looks like you were right he was well worth the risk. I did really like him as a prospect in the draft a few years ago but that was under the premise that he was an exclusive 3T or pass rushing DT. That is clearly where he fits best and we seem to have a DC who can see that which is a good sign. Another example of playing a player to his strengths.

Listen man you and me are the Mullen/Hayward fan club. I’m gonna need some apologies for backing those guys in the off-season. I was definitely a Thomas hater though. I was all in on philon/Jefferson.

[Jeremy408]

9 minutes ago, Darbsk said:

Looks like you were right he was well worth the risk. I did really like him as a prospect in the draft a few years ago but that was under the premise that he was an exclusive 3T or pass rushing DT. That is clearly where he fits best and we seem to have a DC who can see that which is a good sign. Another example of playing a player to his strengths.

Well what we’re seeing is something we haven’t seen in the last maybe 10 years which is a defensive coordinator that actually knows who to get. And he also seems to have a good understanding of what his defense needs to work. For example keeping Cory Littleton as a starter but benching kwiat even though kwiat Play better than Littleton last year

[Mr Raider]

4 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

I just think the odds are better if you play the clock than the 1st down in this situation.

I see it the other way. A first down or two and possession of the ball to take away the rest of the time or score any points to make it a 2 possession game is far more valuable in my eyes than taking away 30 seconds or whatever it amounts to, taking their timeouts, and giving them the ball. Even with no timeouts and only a minute or two left. That is more than enough time drive down and score. The analytics in my eyes says 1 or 2 more first down and/or any more points totally puts the game out of reach. Playing strictly to burn clock and take their timeouts and field position still puts the odds significantly more in their favor to win the game as opposed to being aggressive and converting 2 first downs with an offense that already had 500 yards of offense. 

The defense has been improved, but especially if you tell me we are going to play total prevent defense, I dance with what has gotten me there the most, and that is our offense. Tell those guys to ignore the time, how many time outs they have, just got pick up 2 first downs or one explosive play to get into field goal range and win the game. Not play exactly how the Dolphins anticipate making it easier for them to stop, take timeouts, flip field position and hope we have put them in too big of a hole to tie the game. I suppose in the end even though the defense has looked far better, I still am not at the point of trusting them to get a stop and ice the game. At least not to the level I would trust Carr and the offense to get a couple first downs or a big play that puts us in position to make it a two score game. 

[raidersedge]

James and Leatherwood are both pretty bad right now. Hopefully they can settle in and get better each game. If they do this offense could end up being really special. 

[MrOaktown_56]

16 minutes ago, raidersedge said:

James and Leatherwood are both pretty bad right now. Hopefully they can settle in and get better each game. If they do this offense could end up being really special. 

Leatherwood had some nice run blocking IIRC in the second half. James doesn't really have any redeeming qualities. He's just too weak.