Week 9 GDT - Arizona Cardinals at San Francisco 49ers

[N4L]

26 minutes ago, Ninerholic said:

I feel like all pro Fred hasn’t been playing like an all pro this year.

He needs to be kept clean. The interior DL has not ate up double teams and he gets caught in the traffic sometimes 

Teams also go away from him and there are times where he comes across the field to clean up something that wasn't his original assignment 

The weakness up the middle means we haven't been able to use him in coverage up the seams because we need him over the middle and in the flats 

[Forge]

Pretty sure we are still only a game out of the playoffs

[N4L]

If/when Jalen Moore steps in next week and looks solid in pass pro (against von Miller no less) then it's going to make the fact we picked up McGlinchys 5 year option look so, so bad 

Stuck with him for 10m next year. Massive blunder. 

[JIllg]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Pretty sure we are still only a game out of the playoffs

Oof. We remind me so much of the past couple of years Falcons today. Just a lack of physicality and outside corners on defense and an offense that flips between showing off occasionally absurd skill player talent and shooting itself in the squishy bits. Like that team, the offense might have a charge of a couple of wins in a row in it, but we’re ultimately too flawed to be very threatening. And man, I kind of got back on with Jimmy G after the Bears game - we looked like we might be a feisty 6 or 7 seed and Lance is very raw and the whole team isn’t going to jump off JImmy playing like that - he’s got a lot of charisma. But after today, the Jimmy playing well enough to win remains, but we’re just too bad not to get Lance some experience. Lance’s progression is the franchise. If he toots out, we toot out for half a decade or so. If he’s average or better, we can spend to build a plus team around him. 

[N4L]

Jed York thought he was going to be able to step away and let his football people do what they wanted. The ownership group has their eyes on Leeds United in the premier league and I think they own some Sacramento soccer club too? They didn't think they would have to spend much time managing this football team 

Jed will have to step in at some point and be involved with organizational changes that need to happen. Kyle is officially on the hot seat and he needs to have some of his control reigned in. He won't get fired, but there needs to be real changes made 

I can't believe we went from - maybe we will make the playoffs to - Jed needs to come save the day, but that's kinda where we are at 

I just don't know what legit GM will want to come here knowing how much control Kyle has had here. Having Lance put some good film out there and convincing the rest of the football world that he's a legit franchise QB could be a major help there. Most gms who don't have QBs fail if they can't find one in a 2-3 year span. If you feel like you've got a good QB and a good play caller, you may feel confident you can find the rest of it 

Adam Peters for GM. Make him a real GM and give him authority to tell Kyle no. 

We need John lynch coaching our secondary tbh. He is a leader that we need on the staff. Kyle hasn't proven to be a leader of men in the same way other CEO types have. The players respect him, but he may not be a natural leader. He played WR, not QB, ya know?? 

[SFrush]

A few posters tried to convince me Tavon Wilson is a solid safety. Yeah he's not.

[Swift21]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

Pretty sure we are still only a game out of the playoffs

We likely won't be after the Rams curb stomp us next Monday.

[JIllg]

So, many thoughts this morning. Firstly - fumbles lost as a function of fumbles is essentially entirely noise. And number of fumbles from year to year for an offense is also mostly noise. Now forcing fumbles for a defense can be predictive from year to year with the same personnel - some guys are good at generating fumbles. But for offense it is mostly luck. We are both fumbling the ball at an extremely high rate and losing them at just about the highest rate. In 2019 we were about 10th in both and it was a much needed boon to our turnover problem. Arizona fumbles the ball at the highest rate in the NFL and has lost the 2nd fewest fumbles this year. This is pure luck and it is unsustainable. See their fumble recovery today as exhibit 1a,b, and c. 

I'm sure some of our fumbling problem is skill and maybe a touch more is that we're a team that looks to maximize yards after contact and puts itself into vulnerable positions, but it's still irregular and is a major reason that we lose games like this one. The incremental losses on defense are another. It was one thing to lose Jason Varrett - that hurt our secondary rather badly on high leverage plays, but the combined loss of Tartt, Ward, and the benching of Norman (though necessary) both has crippled our underneath coverage and our sideline to sideline tackling. This is after the loss of Kinlaw and Hurst hurt our defensive interior's ability to cope with double teams in the run game. The end result was the dam finally collapsing after holding up pretty well (if creakily) over the first half of the season.

On offense, we played reasonably well - sans a bit of bad fumble luck/ball protection on offense and Tom Compton's hideous turn at right tackle. But it was a day where the pretty good work of an unlucky offense wasn't going to matter when the other team was ripping the defense apart left and right. And the icing on the cake was Kyle's hideously uninformed 4th down and 2 point decisions submarining any outside chance we had to make it a game. That's just malpractice and it is something that a stronger organization with a healthier relationship between the front office and coaching staff gets right. 

Still, ultimately all of these points bely the most important point. This was mostly a second string Arizona Cardinals team. It was 2nd quarter of a preseason game where we are more intent to keep our guys on the field. Even with all previously mentioned caveats, you have to do better. Otherwise, it speaks to how poorly the team is coached (and assembled) as a whole. 

Edited November 8, 2021 by JIllg

[NcFinest9erFan]

Pretty Pathetic. Makes me wonder if Vic is fired, will Kyle pursue him and let Ryans go? 

I don't really get the defensive game plan yesterday on def.....

[NcFinest9erFan]

I know LAR played terrible last night but realistically, they are going to whoop us on primetime TV. Whoooopeeeeeee!!!!!

I wouldn't be surprised if Lance is the starter in week 11? vs the Jags. We won't be out of the race yet but we'll be 3-6 then.

 

[StevenK]

8 hours ago, N4L said:

Jed York thought he was going to be able to step away and let his football people do what they wanted. The ownership group has their eyes on Leeds United in the premier league and I think they own some Sacramento soccer club too? They didn't think they would have to spend much time managing this football team 

Jed will have to step in at some point and be involved with organizational changes that need to happen. Kyle is officially on the hot seat and he needs to have some of his control reigned in. He won't get fired, but there needs to be real changes made 

I can't believe we went from - maybe we will make the playoffs to - Jed needs to come save the day, but that's kinda where we are at 

I just don't know what legit GM will want to come here knowing how much control Kyle has had here. Having Lance put some good film out there and convincing the rest of the football world that he's a legit franchise QB could be a major help there. Most gms who don't have QBs fail if they can't find one in a 2-3 year span. If you feel like you've got a good QB and a good play caller, you may feel confident you can find the rest of it 

Adam Peters for GM. Make him a real GM and give him authority to tell Kyle no. 

We need John lynch coaching our secondary tbh. He is a leader that we need on the staff. Kyle hasn't proven to be a leader of men in the same way other CEO types have. The players respect him, but he may not be a natural leader. He played WR, not QB, ya know?? 

I guess that’s part of my concern as well though, WILL Jed come save the day. Like we mentioned in the “Will we hold on to Shanahan” topic we know he’s going to be here for at least 2 more years, maybe 1 for sure, will Kyle take a demotion or will he have to be fired. I do agree that Adam Peters may come in and take the reigns from John, but I seriously doubt that John would stay on board and coach our dbs then.

I honestly think that Kyle and John both took a lazy approach this off-season and did not attempt to make us a better team. Intentionally, no, but they thought they could “run it back” with plug-in old school vets that Kyle’s worked with in the past or former injured players. Simple as that. I think Ryan’s got promoted because of all the positive reviews/recommendations players and Saleh gave. I don’t think he’s bad, he’s a rookie as well, but Kyle didn’t get anyone to assist him from outside the organization for OC or even on the def side of the ball. Draft class is a toss up since Kyle doesn’t want to start anyone minus Mitchell and Hufanaga (bc he has too). I don’t understand how u let these FA corners come in and start over your rookies. Like we have been screaming, they need reps. I don’t understand how they could be ANY worse than what’s out there. 

[Geek]

Has McGli

9 hours ago, N4L said:

If/when Jalen Moore steps in next week and looks solid in pass pro (against von Miller no less) then it's going to make the fact we picked up McGlinchys 5 year option look so, so bad 

Stuck with him for 10m next year. Massive blunder. 

Has McGlitchy been that bad thus season? IIRC he's onl given up one or two sacks.

[J-ALL-DAY]

McGlinchey has been fine this season. Has improved on his pass blocking which was much needed. 

Anyways, what is just so disappointed is that week in and week out, this team just makes so many mistakes. That is a sign of a poorly coached team, no other way around it. They will move the ball well and then commit a penalty or have a drop and that would completely end the drive...Oh yeah, they may take a sack in the middle of that. Defensively, the missed tackles are getting ridiculous. 3rd and 18 and they let the Cardinals convert because Al-Shaair whiffs on the tackle. Another 3rd and long and they allow the Cards to convert off a screen pass. That's just horrendous coaching and execution by the players. How can one not see that and come to the conclusion that this is just a bad football team? Talent does not mean a damn thing if you keep making these types of mistakes...And even the talent level, even defensively is not all that. We do not have Verrett, Tartt, Ward, Ford or Kinlaw right now. Is the defense really ALL that talented? Then even solid players like Greenlaw and Hurst are hurt. This is a depleted defensive unit and it keeps missing tackles at a very high rate. 

As for Norman, even with his flaws I do not mind him. He has not played all that poorly in coverage and he is flat out a playmaker. He has what, 3 or 4 FFs and a INT? This defense struggles creating turnovers and he's the one guy that actually can do that. Warner has been fine, his value mainly comes in coverage and you will not see him getting beat. Look at the great play he made on Ertz on 3rd and 2 to prevent him from getting a first down. Warner is not going to be blitzed like Devin White where he is around the LOS all game long so he can make a bunch of TFLs, sacks etc. The issue is that our DL is just so damn weak against the run without Kinlaw. He's the ONLY interior DL the team has that can hold a double team and not get washed away. That was actually one of the reasons the team did not want to give Buckner what he wanted since he kind of had similar issues against the run. Armstead is a much better pass rusher from the inside and showed that yesterday. But what has Ebukam provided? At this point it is clear that he is just not a good player.

And our defense is really built on our safeties playing at a high level and being versatile and able to stop plays from over the top. People get too stuck looking at the lack of INTs for Ward or his PFF grades, but he's really irreplaceable in this defense. Wilson and Hufanga were a step slow all game long and Ward is able to match up with any offensive weapon on 3rd downs and completely take them away. If he does not play next week against the Rams, it could get UGLY...Well, it's going to get ugly regardless but without him?? Forget about it! 

This season just such so other way around it. We cannot even get our first four picks on the field and really, three of them are all tied together. I think Banks/Sermon were drafted to play alongside Lance and add that inside power game....Only problem is that Lance is not playing, so apparently there is no value in playing the other two. So damn disappointing....Jimmy has played well the last two games so he's going to stay the starter but if we lose to the Rams, there is no reason to play him as it will be time to develop Lance for the half of the season...And then maybe Sermon/Banks can starting as well. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

McGlinchey has been fine this season. Has improved on his pass blocking which was much needed. 

Anyways, what is just so disappointed is that week in and week out, this team just makes so many mistakes. That is a sign of a poorly coached team, no other way around it. They will move the ball well and then commit a penalty or have a drop and that would completely end the drive...Oh yeah, they may take a sack in the middle of that. Defensively, the missed tackles are getting ridiculous. 3rd and 18 and they let the Cardinals convert because Al-Shaair whiffs on the tackle. Another 3rd and long and they allow the Cards to convert off a screen pass. That's just horrendous coaching and execution by the players. How can one not see that and come to the conclusion that this is just a bad football team? Talent does not mean a damn thing if you keep making these types of mistakes...And even the talent level, even defensively is not all that. We do not have Verrett, Tartt, Ward, Ford or Kinlaw right now. Is the defense really ALL that talented? Then even solid players like Greenlaw and Hurst are hurt. This is a depleted defensive unit and it keeps missing tackles at a very high rate. 

As for Norman, even with his flaws I do not mind him. He has not played all that poorly in coverage and he is flat out a playmaker. He has what, 3 or 4 FFs and a INT? This defense struggles creating turnovers and he's the one guy that actually can do that. Warner has been fine, his value mainly comes in coverage and you will not see him getting beat. Look at the great play he made on Ertz on 3rd and 2 to prevent him from getting a first down. Warner is not going to be blitzed like Devin White where he is around the LOS all game long so he can make a bunch of TFLs, sacks etc. The issue is that our DL is just so damn weak against the run without Kinlaw. He's the ONLY interior DL the team has that can hold a double team and not get washed away. That was actually one of the reasons the team did not want to give Buckner what he wanted since he kind of had similar issues against the run. Armstead is a much better pass rusher from the inside and showed that yesterday. But what has Ebukam provided? At this point it is clear that he is just not a good player.

And our defense is really built on our safeties playing at a high level and being versatile and able to stop plays from over the top. People get too stuck looking at the lack of INTs for Ward or his PFF grades, but he's really irreplaceable in this defense. Wilson and Hufanga were a step slow all game long and Ward is able to match up with any offensive weapon on 3rd downs and completely take them away. If he does not play next week against the Rams, it could get UGLY...Well, it's going to get ugly regardless but without him?? Forget about it! 

This season just such so other way around it. We cannot even get our first four picks on the field and really, three of them are all tied together. I think Banks/Sermon were drafted to play alongside Lance and add that inside power game....Only problem is that Lance is not playing, so apparently there is no value in playing the other two. So damn disappointing....Jimmy has played well the last two games so he's going to stay the starter but if we lose to the Rams, there is no reason to play him as it will be time to develop Lance for the half of the season...And then maybe Sermon/Banks can starting as well. 

Then we'll finish strong. Say 8-9(5-3 ROS) and folks will be wondering why didn't we go with the switch sooner....

[J-ALL-DAY]

NFC being so bad on the bottom where we are only one game out of the playoffs is the worst thing to happen to this team...Shanny will keep on holding out hope for the team to turn it around and continue to stick with the veterans longer than he should. 

I really think Shanny wants to continue holding off as long as possible to play Lance so when he does play, he will play well where some of the heat will be taken off of him....He does not want Lance to struggle and look bad since Shanny will be questioned for that pick...But that is a terrible mindset to have as everyone knows Lance is raw and will have his fair share of growing pains. 

Watch the Rams/Titans game and then obviously our game, I just do not understand why these young coaches are so damn conservative. I was baffled at multiple decisions by both coaches and just how safe they wanted to play it. How do you punt down 17 inside the 40 yard line? How does McVay not got for it on 4th and goal inside the 5 down 18? How does he not go for it down 15 inside the 40 and instead kicks a FG that does absolutely nothing for the team? How does he punt on 4th and 1 by the 50 yard line? Like why are these two like this???? It's amazing how Shanny went for EVERY single 4th and short with Lance and yet with Jimmy, he hardly ever goes for it in those spots. Baffling.