John Dorsey- lets grade him

[Kiwibrown]

We no longer hear from Dorsey truthers lets have a look. 

Here are some highlights of what he has done not an exhaustive list of his actions 




Brings in Todd Haley- toxic person
Keeps Hue Jackson who went 1-31

Draft 2018


1-1 Baker Mayfield- has had 2 good years one bad year and 2021 has been rocky, he is the 3rd best QB from his class behind Allan and Lamar.

1-4 Ward, has been great in 3/4 years and hasnt been that strong this year

2-33 Corbett, terrible for the Browns adequate for the Rams

2-35 Nick Chubb, top 5 RB in football

3-67 Chad Thomas- no longer in the NFL, had one ok season with 4 sacks. 

4-105 Antonio Callaway see Chad Thomas

5-150 Genard Avery, strong rookie year, hanging on with the Eagles

6-175 Damian Ratley out of the league, little impact

6-188 Simeon Thomas out of the League

 

Signed

TJ Carrie- so so with the Browns but later cut

Darren Fells 1 ok year and cut

Chris Hubbard didnt live up to his contract

Terrance Mitchell solid signing

Damarius Randall traded Kizer for him one good year and one bad year

traded for Tyrod- played really poorly, probabaly didnt help a whole lot. 

Cut

Carl Nassib,

Austin Reiter

Trades Josh Gordon after 1 game for a 5th



2019

Hires 

Freddie Kitchens HC

Big move of the off season

 

Trade Zeitler, Peppers, a 1st and a 3rd for OBJ and Vernon.

Vernon played well, I really liked his play, OBJ has been a terrible player and now a terrible team mate when we consider the cost, he had great impact in two wins, Jets and Cowboys. Otherwise he has been sparingly good but mostly average or poor. 

They got a better cap situation, a starting RG for a couple of years, Peppers who has been up and down but a good team mate and a good starting DT.

Signs

Sheldon Richardson- solid player for two years

D'Ernest Johnson
Demerious Harris

trades for Wyatt Tellers, cost some late round picks. 



cut or traded

Duke Johnson
Jamie Collins
Ogbah
 

Draft

2-46 Greedy Williams, average rookie year, solid in his 3rd year and washed his 2nd year

3-80 Sione Takitaki average years 2-3

4-119 Sheldrick Redwine, PS 

5- Mack Wilson below average at best starting linebacker, poor tackler

5-170 Austin Seibert - in and out of the leauge

6- drew Forbes IR king

7- Donnie lewis never in the league




Dorsey drafting wasn't as strong as it was ranked at the time. There have been too many fails especially after the 1st round, with only 1 stud pick made after round 1 in Chubb. He also cut a lot of guys who could contribute Nassib, Ogbah, Zeitler, ultimately some people liked the know it all baffoon, but he really did suck, he traded in Sachi's treasure in at deminishing returns. 

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Kiwibrown

[DawgX]

I'd give him a B. Definitely has an eye for talent. Wasn't perfect in the draft and FA, but who is as GM? I fault him more for wanting to keep Kitchens when he proved he's inept as a HC and for supposedly not working so nicely with guys like DePodesta. The rumors of him being hard to work with in KC seem like they were probably true.

The OBJ trade obviously didn't work out. I liked the trade at the time, but also didn't think we needed a guy like OBJ.

[JDD]

The drafts getting Baker, Ward, Chubb, Greedy, Wilson and Takitaki is pretty good.  I mean that is 4 starters and 2 starters who can play until you find their replacement. Not sure how he isn’t rated as Good just from that.  
 

The Freddie situation and not working with Depo got him fired. He moved this team forward. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Good eye for talent who Peter principled out as a GM.

[sdrawkcab321]

Solid B. Built the core of this team. If he had one more year I have little doubt that he wouldn’t have fixed the oline and hired a good coach. Freddie was his biggest mistake but it was an easy mistake to make. The offense looked great with him and he clicked with baker. Most people wanted him as HC. 

[DawgX]

21 minutes ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

Solid B. Built the core of this team. If he had one more year I have little doubt that he wouldn’t have fixed the oline and hired a good coach. Freddie was his biggest mistake but it was an easy mistake to make. The offense looked great with him and he clicked with baker. Most people wanted him as HC. 

Would agree but supposedly he didn't want to fire Freddie as HC. He loses major points if that's true.

[Empire Lies]

B-

People have to remember that it's harder to miss with the type of draft capital that Dorsey had at the outset with 4 selections in the top 52. He had the #1 and #4 Overall selections along with top 8 Picks in the 2nd Round of that same draft.

 

Top 3 Best Moves:

1.) Wyatt Teller for some 5th rounders

2.) Nick Chubb in the 2nd

3.) Jarvis Landry for late rounders

Honorable Mention: Baker Mayfield and Denzel Ward. Baker's a hit for sure and was the safest option, but he's not Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. 

 

Top 3 Worst Moves

1.) The Duke Johnson Situation - this was the worse move b/c press conference discipline never would've caused the issue in the first place. In the end, a young Baker spoke in ways that caused some locker room friction and people like Olivier Vernon, Sheldon Richardson, Christian Kirksey and Tyrod to correct him b/c Duke was a great teammate.

2.) Austin Corbett - He was a center/guard from the outset even to Alonzo Highsmith. Nothing close to a Tackle in the slightest bit. 

3.) Cutting Nassib, Ogbah, and being about to cut Njoku when they were on the rise - For players who are the rawest of the raw athletes like Ogbah and Njoku you have to give them the most time to develop. Bailing early and thinking Ogbah was a 5 tech was foolish especially b/c Ogbah broken caused him to miss so much time in the later portions.

Honorable Mention: Going with Freddie Kitchens as HC. It made sense to many at the time as the safe default option, but it never made any sense longterm in many people's mind.

 

 

Edited November 5, 2021 by Empire Lies

[mtmmike]

All pros

Ward 

Chubb

Landry

Obj

Teller

Berry

Conklin

Honorable mention

Greedy Williams

Hunt 

Berry Harrison

Coaching

The offense and defense are clearly better under stefanski.

Conclusion B for both administrators 

Wiffs

Berry

Hooper Massively overpriced Johnson 

Conklin spending 15,000,000 on a lineman

In what was the richest lineman draft in a 10 year period

Wide receivers concerning them

Going into berrys 3rd year he will have drafted dpj and Schwartz these 2 may develop but right now this is a f.

Couple that with losing a 1000 yard receiver for for little or nothing.

Also if you look ahead there is probably only 1 1000 yard receiver to hit free agency

This year we could have traded obj for a piece of a future good team

Landry he will probably get traded for a 4th

That could be used if we need to move up to get are wide receiver. 

[NateDawg]

He gets a C from me. His superiority complex and inability to work with those around him was a detriment, aside from some obvious personnel mistakes.

[MWil23]

He gets a C+

He brought in some talent, may very well have drafted the 3rd best QB with the first overall pick, really wreaked havoc in the F.O. due to his ego, and while he acquired some decent talent, that's not been quite as awesome as many people thought considering the war chest he was given.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

8 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

He gets a C+

He brought in some talent, may very well have drafted the 3rd best QB with the first overall pick, really wreaked havoc in the F.O. due to his ego, and while he acquired some decent talent, that's not been quite as awesome as many people thought considering the war chest he was given.

More or less this imo. 
 

And while Baker may be #3 in the class, I see no way Allen develops here like he did in Buffalo.

Lamar is enough of a freak it may have worked, but really no one considered him an elite QB prospect.

[MWil23]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

More or less this imo. 
 

And while Baker may be #3 in the class, I see no way Allen develops here like he did in Buffalo.

Lamar is enough of a freak it may have worked, but really no one considered him an elite QB prospect.

Context matters and where you're drafted and developed matters as well. Just as likely Josh Allen ends up becoming some shell shocked, sloppy mechanic, inaccurate JAG here as opposed to the situation he was drafted and groomed into.

Lamar may very well have worked here, or he could have been thrown to the wolf that was Hue Jackson and 4 verts as opposed to having an entire system geared towards his strengths (shocking thought there...).

That said, I thought the Chad Thomas pick was awful at the time (and it was, as I wanted either Sam Hubbard or Mark Andrews), the OBJ trade was BAD (I understand why he did it, but you now have a bad trade there), but the Chubb pick was ELITE, the Teller acquisition was ELITE, and the Ward pick was fine (not great or bad, solid pick), considering Jaire Alexander is better, and Fitzpatrick and Derwin James are DUDES in the defensive backfield.

The Corbett pick was awful (Darius Leonard or Cortland Sutton, who I wanted, sure would look nice instead), etc.

That said, you can't nail all of them, and you can't cherry pick re-drafts either, but it was slightly above average all things considered on talent acquisition via the draft, above average to great on trades with Juice and Teller while getting dinged for OBJ, and awful with the hiring of Freddie and the subsequent fallout there.

[MSURacerDT55]

C+ He got my approval for being bold and different, but as time goes on it looks worse and worse but im not going to blame him for going for the gusto. I'd take that over the typical seasonless chicken we have been accustomed to from previous reginmes. Also, this gave Andrew Berry a blueprint of what NOT to do moving forward if he wants to be successful 

[mrpazzo]

I gave him a C.  His strength is clearly talent evaluation and I think he was above average to good in that role.  The problem is Kitchens, Kitchens, Kitchens.  And I say that as a guy supported hiring Kitchens at the time.  Dorsey choosing Kitchens says Dorsey saw protecting John Dorsey was job 1, doing the best for the Browns organization was secondary.  Stefanski had a better resume than Kitchens, and as far as the interview, come on now.  How the heck could you interview both men and believe that Kitchens had the better interview?  Can you imagine Kitchens running the Browns during the 2020 Covid off-season? Dorsey made sure that there would not be a head coach who could challenge him within the organization a la Andy Reid.  Then the disaster of 2019 season happens and Dorsey wanted to retain a coach that was so obviously in over his head, that he became a media joke?  

Am I a little annoyed that with hindsight we got the number 3 qb out 5, yes, but hey Sam Darnold seemed to be the number one guy and some thought Josh Rosen should be number one, so there is that.  And if Josh Allen and Lamar would not be the stars that they are because the Browns environment, whose job was it to create a stable environment with coaching and staffing decisions to support their development?  John Dorsey.  His decisions to keep Hue Jackson, hire Todd Haley, and make Kitchens HC created the chaos.  Some of Baker's problems today may be rooted in the chaos of his first 2 years in the league. 

[NudeTayne]

To almost everyone it was Darnold or Baker at 1, very few willing to take the risk on Allen there. He didn't choose Darnold, which would have been an F, so I give him an A for going against the tide.

The rest of his moves probably pull him down to a B, but he hit on the Denzel pick who, if he would stay healthy, is also a better pick than Bradley Chubb IMO. Most wanted Bradley there too. So yeah, I give that at A.

Teller offsets the Corbett miss and he also went against convention a bit to grab the best back in the league in the second round. He wasn't perfect but did a lot of good as well. 

Edited November 5, 2021 by NudeTayne