2022 Free agency thread

[Sugashane]

44 minutes ago, JAF-N72EX said:

The kids are always the ones who suffer the most lol.

Us fans are the kids. We really do. lol

[WindyCity]

Too busy for free agency…

[Heinz D.]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Not saying Fields wasn't innocent of a ton of mistakes but I think he (and ARob) was stuck in the middle of the custody battle, so to speak.

Based on his history, I'm laying far more of the blame for his horrible play on ARob. 

There may be some truth to what you're getting at--no one is going to argue that the situation with Nagy was ideal, or even close. But that doesn't matter a whole lot when we're discussing ARob. We've seen him phone it in before, or play distracted by off the field things. 

He was paid $18 mil to be a #1 receiver...and he stunk. On top of that, almost everybody assumed he wouldn't be a Bear next season. Now everybody is freaking out that he's gone. I don't get it. At all. 

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Mooney isn't bad at all, but one solid #2 does not make a good WR corps. 

Why are you convinced he's a #2 guy? So, the bad situation with Nagy affected everybody else on the offense except Mooney? He put up some outstanding numbers and maybe some spectacular plays, in spite of everything.

I'm not at all convinced Mooney is strictly a #2 guy. I don't think Ryan Poles is convinced of that either.

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

Mooney isn't bad at all, but one solid #2 does not make a good WR corps. We have a #2, a #3, a #5, and then a returner. The 3 and 5 (Pringle and ESB) have athletic traits but are  taking major step downs from proven coaches and HOF QBs. Sure both are potentially getting more targets since they don't have Adams, Hill, Kelce, etc in front of them but they're still in purgatory. They haven't shown they can thrive in bigger roles yet. 

Well, as I stated above, I take some issue with your slotting there...at least potentially. But we'll agree that either a #1 or a #2 isn't on the roster yet. (Maybe Pringle becomes a #2...I've said that before, but for the purposes of this conversation, we'll hold him at #3.) Do you honestly not like Pringle and ESB more than Byrd and Goodwin? Seriously?

It also seems like Poles and Eberflus are going to give Newsome a chance to do some stuff (unless I missed something), which is what most of us wanted Nagy to do last year. I mean--you draft a guy but give Goodwin more snaps, just because?

44 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

No, I thought it stunk last year and it's worse this year *at the moment*

You also think Byrd and Goodwin were a better pair than Pringle and ESB? 

Edited April 16, 2022 by Heinz D.

[beardown3231]

24 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Based on his history, I'm laying far more of the blame for his horrible play on ARob. 

There may be some truth to what you're getting at--no one is going to argue that the situation with Nagy was ideal, or even close. But that doesn't matter a whole lot when we're discussing ARob. We've seen him phone it in before, or play distracted by off the field things. 

He was paid $18 mil to be a #1 receiver...and he stunk. On top of that, almost everybody assumed he wouldn't be a Bear next season. Now everybody is freaking out that he's gone. I don't get it. At all. 

Why are you convinced he's a #2 guy? So, the bad situation with Nagy affected everybody else on the offense except Mooney? He put up some outstanding numbers and maybe some spectacular plays, in spite of everything.

I'm not at all convinced Mooney is strictly a #2 guy. I don't think Ryan Poles is convinced of that either.

Well, as I stated above, I take some issue with your slotting there...at least potentially. But we'll agree that either a #1 or a #2 isn't on the roster yet. (Maybe Pringle becomes a #2...I've said that before, but for the purposes of this conversation, we'll hold him at #3.) Do you honestly not like Pringle and ESB more than Byrd and Goodwin? Seriously?

It also seems like Poles and Eberflus are going to give Newsome a chance to do some stuff (unless I missed something), which is what most of us wanted Nagy to do last year. I mean--you draft a guy but give Goodwin more snaps, just because?

You also think Byrd and Goodwin were a better pair than Pringle and ESB? 

ESB is an absolutely nobody. He's crap. I don't know why you think otherwise. Goodwin does something well. Byrd does something well. St. Brown does nothing well at all.

[Sugashane]

1 hour ago, Heinz D. said:

Based on his history, I'm laying far more of the blame for his horrible play on ARob. 

His history of being a constant 1000 yard receiver with poor QBs is being held against him? Snap counts matter. Scheme matters. Getting screwed over by the last regime matters. 

I dont hold him faultless but this isnt a Randy Moss kind of deal. You jerk your players around too much they will cover their own *****. 

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There may be some truth to what you're getting at--no one is going to argue that the situation with Nagy was ideal, or even close. But that doesn't matter a whole lot when we're discussing ARob. We've seen him phone it in before, or play distracted by off the field things. 

He was paid $18 mil to be a #1 receiver...and he stunk. On top of that, almost everybody assumed he wouldn't be a Bear next season. Now everybody is freaking out that he's gone. I don't get it. At all. 

People arent freaking out about ARob being gone at all. People want to see someone who can fill that void that he left. Primgle isnt as good as ARob is. Period. If so KC would have re-signed him before trading Hill.

Byrd literally got more snaps on offense than ARob. So a guy that started 4 games had more offensive snaps than a guy that started 11. Thats Nagy. 

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Why are you convinced he's a #2 guy? So, the bad situation with Nagy affected everybody else on the offense except Mooney? He put up some outstanding numbers and maybe some spectacular plays, in spite of everything.

No. Because he has shown me nothing to indicate he is a number one guy yet. As for "outstanding numbers" I think that is a gross exaggeration. With 17 games and an offense funnelled at him he barely got 1000 yards. On a 16 game season he doesn't get it. 

He also had 4 rec TDs. If you're convinced he is a true #1 thats fine but i havent seen him or data to support that view. He can still develop but like I said im not projecting, im looking at past play. 

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I'm not at all convinced Mooney is strictly a #2 guy. I don't think Ryan Poles is convinced of that either.

Well I could say he is convinced the OL is damn solid and that the defensive backfield is set because of a lack of big moves too. Its a rebuild and we haven't reached the draft, TC, or even preseason. 

We arent winning anything significant this year and if anyone is drawing conclusions that someone not named Roquan is a lock then id call it premature. Poles seems to be giving people a chance to prove they fit his and Eberflus' vision. Mooney is as much an unknown to them as anyone else and will have to earn that extension. 

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Well, as I stated above, I take some issue with your slotting there...at least potentially. But we'll agree that either a #1 or a #2 isn't on the roster yet. (Maybe Pringle becomes a #2...I've said that before, but for the purposes of this conversation, we'll hold him at #3.) Do you honestly not like Pringle and ESB more than Byrd and Goodwin? Seriously?

I dont think Byrd or Goodwin are worse than ESB, no. 

ARob, Mooney, Byrd, Goodwin vs Mooney, Pringle, ESB, Newsome? Im taking the former 10 times out of 10. I bet 95% of the front offices would too.

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It also seems like Poles and Eberflus are going to give Newsome a chance to do some stuff (unless I missed something), which is what most of us wanted Nagy to do last year. I mean--you draft a guy but give Goodwin more snaps, just because?

I doubt newsome was a finished product. He was drafted late for a reason. Plus we already had one small WR in Mooney. Its hard to field multiple mighty mouse WRs and have a run game when youre not able to make people pay on deep throws. 

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You also think Byrd and Goodwin were a better pair than Pringle and ESB? 

Meh grouping either way. ESB is a healthy Kevin White post-injury. Not super explosive but big as hell and still has ateaight line speed. Pringle may be something but now he doesn't get to have the 3rd or 4th best CB on him. We dont have a Hill and Kelce drawing at least 3 DBs to let him beat scrap heap defenders. Now he has to win against actual starters.

Im going to see if Pringle can do it before crowning him.

Love Fields too, but he will never have the peak Mahomes has had.

[JAF-N72EX]

I see Mooney as an ascending #2 with unproven #1 potential. Pringle is strictly a #3 at best. And ESB is a #4 at best.

The WR situation is not ideal for a 2nd year QB. Fields, like most QBs, need a true #1 he can count on when the game is on the line and right now he doesn't have that until proven otherwise.

[JAF-N72EX]

2 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Us fans are the kids. We really do. lol

Lol, and like most kids, we can see where the biggest problems lie more often than the parents can.

[soulman]

I'm more than a little amused at all of the grappling over whether Mooney is truly a #1 WR.  Who as our #1 WR in 2021?  Sure as hell it wasn't ARob although that's the title he carried.  I think the #1 guy is whoever catches the most balls for the most yardage and TDs.  Right now Mooney IS that guy and he was in 2021 as well.

[Sugashane]

6 minutes ago, soulman said:

I'm more than a little amused at all of the grappling over whether Mooney is truly a #1 WR.  Who as our #1 WR in 2021?  Sure as hell it wasn't ARob although that's the title he carried.  I think the #1 guy is whoever catches the most balls for the most yardage and TDs.  Right now Mooney IS that guy and he was in 2021 as well.

I see what youre saying, but to be fair we scored 18ppg so that sounds like more of an indictment than boosting Mooney. At one point Kendall Wright was our number one receiver too, and only scored a bit under 2ppg less. We were a bottom 4 passing offense in most statistics for a number of reasons. Mooney being forced into a number one role was a part of that IMO.

A top 20-30 receiver vs being the best of a bad bunch are totally different things. He will be the top guy this year I'd bet but more so due to a lack of talent to compete with him for that spot. 

 

[JAF-N72EX]

1 hour ago, soulman said:

I'm more than a little amused at all of the grappling over whether Mooney is truly a #1 WR.  Who as our #1 WR in 2021?  Sure as hell it wasn't ARob although that's the title he carried.  I think the #1 guy is whoever catches the most balls for the most yardage and TDs.  Right now Mooney IS that guy and he was in 2021 as well.

To me, a player having the most targets doesn't make them a true #1. Jacobi Meyers had the most targets in NE last year by a considerable amount and I doubt Jakobi himself would tell you that he's a true #1.

It's more about the impact #1s have on the game than the amount of targets.

Are defenses specifically game planning around him? Are defenses shadowing him with thier best corners? Are they drawing bracket coverage's or double teams? Are LBers shifting to his zone to cover underneath routes? These subtle nuances are what separate the true #1s in the league, like Adams and Nuk, from those who are forced to play the #1 position like Jacobi Meyers.

 

[Heinz D.]

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

His history of being a constant 1000 yard receiver with poor QBs is being held against him? 

No...his history of vanishing, or close to it, when he's worried about not being paid is being held against him.

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

I dont hold him faultless but this isnt a Randy Moss kind of deal. You jerk your players around too much they will cover their own *****. 

You ever see another guy get paid $18 mil and play like a scrub? Ever?

4 hours ago, Sugashane said:

People arent freaking out about ARob being gone at all.

[Heinz D.]

Next. I'd like to hear explanations as to why letting Arob go was a bad move. 

Go into detail, too--on just how misguided that strategy was. How it was an obvious mistake by our new GM.

That'll be fun. 

Y'all take care. See you soon. 

Edited April 17, 2022 by Heinz D.

[JAF-N72EX]

1 minute ago, Heinz D. said:

No...his history of vanishing, or close to it, when he's worried about not being paid is being held against him.

Where is this history of him vanishing?

Arob has always been a humble guy. He had been trying to get an extension since after the 2019 season and the FO refused and  he still went and balled out in 2020 for 151 catches, 1250 yards, 6Tds.

8 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

5 hours ago, Sugashane said:

People arent freaking out about ARob being gone at all. People want to see someone who can fill that void that he left. Primgle isnt as good as ARob is. Period. If so KC would have re-signed him before trading Hill.

You left out the most important of Suga's post so I added it back in for clarity.

And he's absolutely right. Nobody is freaking out over Arob leaving, nor is anyone blaming the current FO for it. But the fact is we lost a very good player with nobody to replace him, and Pringle is far from the answer.

You seem to be the only one 'freaking out' here by not understanding this.

[JAF-N72EX]

19 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

Next. I'd like to hear explanations as to why letting Arob go was a bad move.

Again, nobody is blaming Poles.  Arob was done with this team before Poles even got here and that's on Pace/Nagy.

It was, however, a bad move to not target a viable replacement WR in FA.

[blkwdw13]

6 hours ago, Sugashane said:

Byrd literally got more snaps on offense than ARob. So a guy that started 4 games had more offensive snaps than a guy that started 11. Thats Nagy. 
 

In playing 5 more games Byrd only got three more snaps. I think it would be better to use snap percentage in this case which Robinson was at 80% while Byrd was at 55%, Robinson was also targeted almost double the amount that Byrd was. Personally I believe it was a combination of Nagy disrespecting Robinson and Robinson slacking (I don't want to say quitting).