43M Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 I like Hebert alot, but I absolutely loathe the "not even close" labels that constantly get thrown around on here, especially since its usually not true. In this case, it MIGHT be true THIS year, but it could just as easily change next year. Guys like Burrow, Murray, and even some of the rookies like Mac Jones and de-Urban'd Trevor Lawrence could ball out next year. Even right NOW, I wouldnt say "its not even close". But yes, Herbert looks like he is going to be a great QB going forward. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knowledge Posted December 19, 2021 Share Posted December 19, 2021 you lost me at "not even close" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 What is the relevance of "young" in terms of QBs? Him being younger than Allen or Mahomes is meaningless when they're that close in age. Kyler, Burrow, Lamar. Mac Jones is off to a good start with a great coach. Trey Lance will walk into a better situation than most of those guys. Trevor Lawrence was a better prospect than all of those guys. Russell Wilson could play for another 7 years. Deshaun Watson will land somewhere. Dak is only 28. Him being the "best young QB" is meaningless when he's going to spend his entire career being the second best QB in his division and possibly near the bottom of the top 10 the whole time as well. And eventually he will get paid and his supporting cast will be significantly worse as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 This is the point where we turn from me arguing that Herbert is underrated, to arguing that he is overrated. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 19 hours ago, 43M said: I like Hebert alot, but I absolutely loathe the "not even close" labels that constantly get thrown around on here, especially since its usually not true. In this case, it MIGHT be true THIS year, but it could just as easily change next year. Guys like Burrow, Murray, and even some of the rookies like Mac Jones and de-Urban'd Trevor Lawrence could ball out next year. Even right NOW, I wouldnt say "its not even close". But yes, Herbert looks like he is going to be a great QB going forward. This is a satire thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenos Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: This is the point where we turn from me arguing that Herbert is underrated, to arguing that he is overrated. Because you know, he could get injured…just like Tomlinson 😆 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 6 hours ago, Knowledge said: you lost me at "not even close" It means the distance between Herbert and the next best young qb is a very large gap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicCrown Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 AINECs never look bad in hindsight, ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, 43M said: I like Hebert alot, but I absolutely loathe the "not even close" labels that constantly get thrown around on here, especially since its usually not true. In this case, it MIGHT be true THIS year, but it could just as easily change next year. Guys like Burrow, Murray, and even some of the rookies like Mac Jones and de-Urban'd Trevor Lawrence could ball out next year. Even right NOW, I wouldnt say "its not even close". But yes, Herbert looks like he is going to be a great QB going forward. Some people have a bad habit of anointing players sooner than they should....especially with QBs. It's like they forget the times they were calling QBs like Wentz a franchise QB based on 1 or 2 seasons. Edited December 20, 2021 by JAF-N72EX 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 8 hours ago, FrantikRam said: What is the relevance of "young" in terms of QBs? Him being younger than Allen or Mahomes is meaningless when they're that close in age. Kyler, Burrow, Lamar. Mac Jones is off to a good start with a great coach. Trey Lance will walk into a better situation than most of those guys. Trevor Lawrence was a better prospect than all of those guys. Russell Wilson could play for another 7 years. Deshaun Watson will land somewhere. Dak is only 28. Him being the "best young QB" is meaningless when he's going to spend his entire career being the second best QB in his division and possibly near the bottom of the top 10 the whole time as well. And eventually he will get paid and his supporting cast will be significantly worse as well. He is already top 5 to top 3 and you talking about bottom of the top 10. Stop it. He is also outplaying Mahomes this year. He has the 5th worst scoring defense and is either 1 FG attempt on 1 of all those 4th downs from Thursday or 1 of the 2 dropped tds away from sweeping KC and being the #1 seed in the AFC year 1 in a new system with a new HC. Herbert is 100% top 5 and that is the down side. He is closer to top 3. If you did a composite score of EPA, paa, pass epa, qbr, dvoa, dyar, pff, passer rating, adjusted comp, any/a, td%, int%, ypa, success rate, epa/play, on target%, bad throw%, yds per game, turnover worthy plays.. so basically just about any respectable performance metric, he would arguably have the lowest score of any QB, after the week Brady had. He has collectively outplayed Mahomes in their 3 games and the 2 losses were in OT where he should of won at minimum 1 if not both. So this notion he is going to play 2nd fiddle to Mahomes his whole career in the division is a joke and horrible take. Yes Mahomes has achieved more. But Herbert is flat-out, out playing him and most every other QB. I'm not discrediting Mahomes or any other QB. But you are in denial if you think Herbert isn't on that level. Again they should be the #1 seed right now in the AFC, with the 5th worst scoring D and the most WR drops (30) if they didn't pass up atleast 1 gimme FG or caught 1 of the 3 dropped endzone passes. Man some of you are really hesitant to accept what you see. Herbert is off to the greatest start from a production stand point for any QB in NFL history for their first 2 years in the league. Oh and he leads the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks. Bad take. Edited December 20, 2021 by Bearerofnews Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 5 hours ago, Bearerofnews said: He is already top 5 to top 3 and you talking about bottom of the top 10. Stop it. He is also outplaying Mahomes this year. He has the 5th worst scoring defense and is either 1 FG attempt on 1 of all those 4th downs from Thursday or 1 of the 2 dropped tds away from sweeping KC and being the #1 seed in the AFC year 1 in a new system with a new HC. Herbert is 100% top 5 and that is the down side. He is closer to top 3. If you did a composite score of EPA, paa, pass epa, qbr, dvoa, dyar, pff, passer rating, adjusted comp, any/a, td%, int%, ypa, success rate, epa/play, on target%, bad throw%, yds per game, turnover worthy plays.. so basically just about any respectable performance metric, he would arguably have the lowest score of any QB, after the week Brady had. He has collectively outplayed Mahomes in their 3 games and the 2 losses were in OT where he should of won at minimum 1 if not both. So this notion he is going to play 2nd fiddle to Mahomes his whole career in the division is a joke and horrible take. Yes Mahomes has achieved more. But Herbert is flat-out, out playing him and most every other QB. I'm not discrediting Mahomes or any other QB. But you are in denial if you think Herbert isn't on that level. Again they should be the #1 seed right now in the AFC, with the 5th worst scoring D and the most WR drops (30) if they didn't pass up atleast 1 gimme FG or caught 1 of the 3 dropped endzone passes. Man some of you are really hesitant to accept what you see. Herbert is off to the greatest start from a production stand point for any QB in NFL history for their first 2 years in the league. Oh and he leads the league in game winning drives and 4th quarter comebacks. Bad take. He's outplaying Mahomes THIS year. He's also the second best QB in LA THIS year. That's the danger of honing in on one season. Lamar Jackson was the only unanimous MVP - had a season MUCH better than Herbert (coincidentally his second year also) - and now....? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, FrantikRam said: He's outplaying Mahomes THIS year. He's also the second best QB in LA THIS year. That's the danger of honing in on one season. Lamar Jackson was the only unanimous MVP - had a season MUCH better than Herbert (coincidentally his second year also) - and now....? It isn't a matter of honing. If you watch Herbert and come away thinking his talent, skill set and ability is isolated to a singular successful season and not static sustainable elite play, not sure what to tell you. Lamar and Herbert are nothing alike at all. Herbert might very well be the best pure thrower in the league already and pocket passer, who has the ability to also play outside the pocket. That's another lazy take comparing the two, just because it's their 2nd seasons. Just like people who compared Baker and Herbert because of rookie seasons. Edited December 20, 2021 by Bearerofnews 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicMT Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 12 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Lamar and Herbert are nothing alike at all. Herbert might very well be the best pure thrower in the league already and pocket passer, who has the ability to also play outside the pocket. That's another lazy take comparing the two, just because it's their 2nd seasons. He's just saying that Jackson had an awesome 2nd season (MVP) and that he probably regressed a bit since then. And the same thing could happen to Herbert. Even if he's the QB for your team you should at least admit that it's a possibility that he never plays as good as this year again (unlikely, but possible). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bearerofnews Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 1 minute ago, MagicMT said: He's just saying that Jackson had an awesome 2nd season (MVP) and that he probably regressed a bit since then. And the same thing could happen to Herbert. Even if he's the QB for your team you should at least admit that it's a possibility that he never plays as good as this year again (unlikely, but possible). Sure it's possible. But it's also possible that what is happening to say Mahomes is his natural regression as well and that 2021 Mahomes is Mahomes moving forward. There is no absolutes when projecting for the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted December 20, 2021 Share Posted December 20, 2021 37 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said: Sure it's possible. But it's also possible that what is happening to say Mahomes is his natural regression as well and that 2021 Mahomes is Mahomes moving forward. There is no absolutes when projecting for the future. Cool. So I'm officially good to start claiming that Stafford is currently the best QB in the league? Or possibly second best to Rodgers? It's either that this year is all we're focusing on - which is Herbert's ONLY claim over Mahomes - and even then, Herbert is 9th in passer rating with really good weapons, and in this case, Stafford (and others) is better than Herbert by a good margin. Or prior years and/or accounting for the future matter, and Herbert is not near Mahomes' level yet. You can't have it both ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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