How are those Rookies Doing? Mid-Season Edition

[Jlowe22]

27 minutes ago, navysaintsfan said:

I think that was just their opinions, not the actual voting for awards

I would hope not, considering there's two games left at the time they voted on it.

[Dome]

On 12/24/2017 at 1:11 PM, navysaintsfan said:

I think that was just their opinions, not the actual voting for awards

Correct, it was the execs saying who’d they’d pick at this point in the season 

[Speedyg]

With the season almost done, I feel it's fair to assess the performance by Fournette.  First of all, he wasn't my favorite running back in this class (I liked cook more). I had concerns about Fournettes agility and felt he needs a dominant OL that will punch holes for him to shoot through.

Granted, I will state that I am basing my opinion just off watching the game and without looking at all-22. He's also dealt with the most stacked boxes, predictable play  calling, Bortles (especially early in the season), and he's been banged up since about week 6.

But watching him most of the year, I think he's clearly a full north/south runner who needs a hole for him to burst through. We saw that vs the Steelers and rams when he got shot out of the cannon for long yardage and not even secondary guys could get to him.

However, when there's little room to maneuver, he puts his head down and picks up the immediate short yardage that is there...no yards lost, but also nothing more.

Many times (too often, in fact)this season, he has also utilized a spin move to try and get away from guys. While this is impressive for a 235-240 lb back, I think this is his way of making up for his lack of agility.  A smaller guy (or a true elite big back) makes more out of these runs with a cut than fournette with his spin.

I know he got a lot of love early in the season and he gets more attention than Kamara or Hunt, but what I see from him is a limited...a very good, no doubt, but limited power back with game breaking speed if given a clear lane.

I think he'll be a guy that will be successful in the NFL due to the offense he's in (he gets fed a lot, especially in goal line situation) but I don't think he'll be an elite runner (like Bell, Gurley, David J, zeke, etc) unless he drops weight and is able to make guys miss in tight spaces.

[RaidersAreOne]

Injuried and put on IR, or generally useless. 

[Dome]

As of right now I'd give the OROY to Hunt and DROY to Lattimore. 

Hunt struggled in the middle of the season, as did the whole team. But overall he's been asked to shoulder more of a workload and has been very impressive doing it.From a talent standpoint, I have faith that Kamara can handle the workload and will look just as good or better than Hunt has, but he hasn't been given that opportunity.

[gopherwrestler]

32 minutes ago, domepatrol91 said:

I have faith that Kamara can handle the workload and will look just as good or better than Hunt has, but he hasn't been given that opportunity.

I believe so also, but as a team standpoint, having Ingram and Kamara running the way they are it is already better than Hunt.

Having a combo that can handle the workload without getting out of rhythm is huge. Team is probably better off that way.

[The BILLievers]

PFF Overall Rookie Rankings thru 16 weeks

1. Tre'Davious White - 91.4
2. Marshon Lattimore - 90.5
3. Alvin Kamara - 89.6
4. Kareem Hunt - 89.4
5. Reuben Foster - 91.7

[48 1/2ers]

49ers have one of the best rookie classes I can remember. 

DE Solomon Thomas- had his best game against the Jags with 1.5 sacks a tfl and a couple hurries. Leading the team in TFL's I believe, just not a sack artist yet. 

LB Reuben Foster- as great as advertised not much needs to be said 

CB Akhello Witherspoon- locked in a starting job going into next year after being inactive the first 5 games or something. Really improved as a tackler where he hasn't shown he's lacking. 

TE George Kittle- been our #1 TE all season and as a blocker he's been solid in the run game but weak in pass pro. Fixed his drops issue from early in the season and is really talented as a receiver. 

WR Trent Taylor- the go to option for 3rd and 7 or less, he's been a really consistent target for all our QB's and looks like a legit NFL receiver which I had serious doubts. leads the team in 3 down targets/receptions by a large margin. 

S Adrian Colbert- My favorite draft pick this dude is a missile and covers so much ground I honestly havent seen that type of safety play from a niner since Tony Parish. Steal of the 7th round. 

RB Matt Breida- UDFA that has become our platoon back with Hyde. Breida is really a gem of a udfa who will be in the league for a while, a little fumble happy but he's such a great receiver and solid between the tackles. 

WR Kendrick Bourne- Last 5 games he's really come on after nothing the first 10, but he's been a long stride sure handed target for Jimmy G and will have a real chance to stick around after going undrafted. 

 

 

 

[RuralBill]

1 hour ago, The BILLievers said:

PFF Overall Rookie Rankings thru 16 weeks

1. Tre'Davious White - 91.4
2. Marshon Lattimore - 90.5
3. Alvin Kamara - 89.6
4. Kareem Hunt - 89.4
5. Reuben Foster - 91.7

If Marshon is guaranteed a Revis career, then what is White guaranteed? A Deion Sanders career?

[Raves]

2 hours ago, RuralBill said:

If Marshon is guaranteed a Revis career, then what is White guaranteed? A Deion Sanders career?

Considering if Lattimore had played the games he had miss his ranking probably would've been even higher, I think it would probably be swapped.

[tyler735]

2 hours ago, RuralBill said:

If Marshon is guaranteed a Revis career, then what is White guaranteed? A Deion Sanders career?

Meh they are rated within a point of each other on PFF. I''m still taking Marshon over White this year and for the future. That said both will likely have great careers. Loving your vendetta against the Saints as of late though  

[The BILLievers]

2 hours ago, Raves said:

Considering if Lattimore had played the games he had miss his ranking probably would've been even higher, I think it would probably be swapped.

Could be, but I'm in the boat that if you play 378 more snaps than the other guy, that should mean something in terms of being the defensive rookie of the year (as long as both are close to production on the field).

Tre White : 1098 defensive plays

Lattimore : 720 defensive plays

You really can't go wrong with either of them but just seems like Lattimore gets more buzz being on the division leading Saints and not the Buffalo Bills

[Raves]

24 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

Could be, but I'm in the boat that if you play 378 more snaps than the other guy, that should mean something in terms of being the defensive rookie of the year (as long as both are close to production on the field).

Tre White : 1098 defensive plays

Lattimore : 720 defensive plays

You really can't go wrong with either of them but just seems like Lattimore gets more buzz being on the division leading Saints and not the Buffalo Bills

I think both are going to be great for a long time, especially since they seem to be going about it the right way and are actually close with talking to each other weekly discussing who they are facing.

[tyler735]

3 minutes ago, The BILLievers said:

Could be, but I'm in the boat that if you play 378 more snaps than the other guy, that should mean something in terms of being the defensive rookie of the year (as long as both are close to production on the field).

Tre White : 1098 defensive plays

Lattimore : 720 defensive plays

You really can't go wrong with either of them but just seems like Lattimore gets more buzz being on the division leading Saints and not the Buffalo Bills

Both have been great, but for me it goes beyond just defensive plays, interceptions, passes defensed, etc. The Saints defense was historically bad the past few years until this season where we have been a solid to good unit. Here's a list of the changes that we have made since last years defense: Manti Te'o, AJ Klein (Injured), Alex Okafor (Injured), Marcus Williams, and Marshon Lattimore. We also lost our best Interior DL in Nick Fairley coming off a career year. 

Other than Lattimore, none of these guys really scream game-changer on defense (They have all been solid pickups, but nothing special). With Lattimore on the field, he has taken tons of pressure off the rest of the defense. He has been able to blanket #1 WR's throughout the season which has allowed the rest of the defense to perform at a much higher level. In the past, teams have been able to absolutely destroy our CB's, who couldn't cover long enough for the Pass Rush to consistently generate pressure on the QB. With a guy like Lattimore on the field (and Crawley at the other CB spot), he consistently forces the QB to either hold on to the ball longer and make another read, or force the ball into tight coverage. This has allowed the pass rush more time to get after the QB, and we've seen a much better pass rush this year. Even a guy like Cam Jordan who has been great for us since he arrived, is having a career year this season largely due to the fact that the coverage has finally improved allowing better pass rush opportunities 

Saints 2017 defense- 19.7 points per game allowed

Saints 2016 defense- 28.4 points per game allowed

Saints 2015 defense- 29.8 points per game allowed

As I mentioned at the beginning of this Tre White has also been great this season, and has certainly been among the best rookie CB's the past several years as well. With Lattimore I have seen what appears to be him leading a culture change on a defense that has been so bad for so long. Obviously I'm a Saints fan and am a bit biased, but I think what gives him the lead for DROY is the combination of production (0 touchdowns allowed in man coverage, 5 interceptions, 17 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble recovery, 1 touchdown), being a very solid tackler at CB, having an elite PFF rating, playing a schedule that featured several top WR's, and passing the "eye test" as one of the best rookie CB's I've seen (He has just about every trait you want a CB to have...As long as he can stay healthy). 

[The BILLievers]

18 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Both have been great, but for me it goes beyond just defensive plays, interceptions, passes defensed, etc. The Saints defense was historically bad the past few years until this season where we have been a solid to good unit. Here's a list of the changes that we have made since last years defense: Manti Te'o, AJ Klein (Injured), Alex Okafor (Injured), Marcus Williams, and Marshon Lattimore. We also lost our best Interior DL in Nick Fairley coming off a career year. 

Other than Lattimore, none of these guys really scream game-changer on defense (They have all been solid pickups, but nothing special). With Lattimore on the field, he has taken tons of pressure off the rest of the defense. He has been able to blanket #1 WR's throughout the season which has allowed the rest of the defense to perform at a much higher level. In the past, teams have been able to absolutely destroy our CB's, who couldn't cover long enough for the Pass Rush to consistently generate pressure on the QB. With a guy like Lattimore on the field (and Crawley at the other CB spot), he consistently forces the QB to either hold on to the ball longer and make another read, or force the ball into tight coverage. This has allowed the pass rush more time to get after the QB, and we've seen a much better pass rush this year. Even a guy like Cam Jordan who has been great for us since he arrived, is having a career year this season largely due to the fact that the coverage has finally improved allowing better pass rush opportunities 

Saints 2017 defense- 19.7 points per game allowed

Saints 2016 defense- 28.4 points per game allowed

Saints 2015 defense- 29.8 points per game allowed

As I mentioned at the beginning of this Tre White has also been great this season, and has certainly been among the best rookie CB's the past several years as well. With Lattimore I have seen what appears to be him leading a culture change on a defense that has been so bad for so long. Obviously I'm a Saints fan and am a bit biased, but I think what gives him the lead for DROY is the combination of production (0 touchdowns allowed in man coverage, 5 interceptions, 17 passes defensed, 1 forced fumble, 1 fumble recovery, 1 touchdown), being a very solid tackler at CB, having an elite PFF rating, playing a schedule that featured several top WR's, and passing the "eye test" as one of the best rookie CB's I've seen (He has just about every trait you want a CB to have...As long as he can stay healthy). 

I agree with mostly everything you said above. The turnaround of the Saints D is huge and Lattimore should get some credit for that but there's still the factor of missing games.

You listed Latitmores stats but White's are just as good, if not better, knowing he did it with 300+ more snaps. (1 TD allowed on the year, 4 INTs, 18 passes defended, 2 FF, 2 FR, 1 touchdown). Granted Laittmore would get more PD, INTs by playing those games but also has 300 more snaps to worry about giving up TD's.

 

You can't go wrong with either but just like in the MVP discussion, would you give the award to Carson Wentz over Tom Brady/Gurley? Wentz 13 games played just like Lattimore.