How are those Rookies Doing? Mid-Season Edition

[LinderFournette]

3 hours ago, tyler735 said:

Does it? Last time I checked nobody (Since I started watching football) regardless of Brees (Great QB) and an Oline had averaged 7 ypc prior to Kamara

It must be very nice to to be able to run the ball vs 7 man fronts. 

Again I'm not saying kamara is bad but hes been put into a much easier situation then fournette whos pretty much the only good offensive skill guy we have(arob doesnt count as hes been on ir after week 1) not to mention the gap from Brees to bortles is quite steep. 

[Dome]

17 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

Happens when u have some good oline play and brees put there. 

We’ve had this for almost a decade now and never seen anyone like Kamara. I get what you’re saying, but don’t necessarily agree with the extent to which you’re suggesting. 

[tyler735]

1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

It must be very nice to to be able to run the ball vs 7 man fronts. 

Again I'm not saying kamara is bad but hes been put into a much easier situation then fournette whos pretty much the only good offensive skill guy we have(arob doesnt count as hes been on ir after week 1) not to mention the gap from Brees to bortles is quite steep. 

And I'm saying that I agree he's been put in a good situation, but has still shown he is a special talent not just because he is in a good situation. He creates more yards than any RB I've seen this year, and forces tons of missed tackles every game. Both of which have nothing to do with "7 man fronts", or "Drew Brees", but rather, everything to do with Kamara's talent level.

[Spartica4Real]

I am a huge LSU fan and when I say Fournette is my 2nd favorite athlete to come from LSU (Shaq is #1) I mean it. I love Fournette. So I think it means something when I say he should be waaaay behind Kamara. I'd put him 2nd, but it wouldn't be a particularly close 2nd.

[Soko]

3 hours ago, mtmmike said:

njoku and garrett seem like the real deal for cleveland.

Haven’t seen a ton of Cleveland - Njoku has looked good? I’ve heard he drops a decent amount of passes and hasn’t been very consistent. 

He was my favorite TE coming out, I thought he’d be what Engram has been (maybe a bit less due to...environment).

[sammymvpknight]

2 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

It must be very nice to to be able to run the ball vs 7 man fronts. 

Again I'm not saying kamara is bad but hes been put into a much easier situation then fournette whos pretty much the only good offensive skill guy we have(arob doesnt count as hes been on ir after week 1) not to mention the gap from Brees to bortles is quite steep. 

Kamara is a phenom match with the ideal scheme fit. But I encourage you to watch Kamara. Yes...his blocking is better than Fornettes, but he also is probably one of the league leaders in yard after contact. He is really difficult to tackle and makes tons of big plays out of nothing. Fournette is a heck of a player...but you know where he’ll be and you know how to defend it. It’s really difficult to defend Kamara because he can beat you from anywhere on the field. Because of that he gets more 1-on-1s where he is unbelievably difficult to tackle. 

[sammymvpknight]

14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Haven’t seen a ton of Cleveland - Njoku has looked good? I’ve heard he drops a decent amount of passes and hasn’t been very consistent. 

He was my favorite TE coming out, I thought he’d be what Engram has been (maybe a bit less due to...environment).

Njoku is really talented. Inconsistent and a bit raw, but talented. With Gordon and Coleman back...he’s going to be open more and roast teams. He’s been improving quite a bit in recent weeks.

[VanS]

4 hours ago, mtmmike said:

njoku and garrett seem like the real deal for cleveland.

Good to hear.  I liked both a lot coming out of college.  I think Myles Garrett blows up next year and has a monster season.  15+ sacks.

I also like Njoku to become a pro-bowl tight end once they get a QB over there in Cleveland.

[LinderFournette]

1 hour ago, tyler735 said:

And I'm saying that I agree he's been put in a good situation, but has still shown he is a special talent not just because he is in a good situation. He creates more yards than any RB I've seen this year, and forces tons of missed tackles every game. Both of which have nothing to do with "7 man fronts", or "Drew Brees", but rather, everything to do with Kamara's talent level.

ts pretty easy to create more yards then any other back when hes Being used as a Change of Pace guy so after the defense is gassed from ingram then u hit them with some speed/Agility and yep your gonna get a higher average. 

i bet if u took Kamara to the jags and fournette to the saints(its a simple straight up switch) i gurantee you Kamara wont look as explosive as he does.  

just cuz im bored lets compare offensive guys:

Saints have a Clear Advantage at QB, WR, OL.  no arguments can be made that the saints have a worse at those positions. 

i would say its probably a push at RB talent(we really have 3 backs who can be counted on and 2 of them are sure fire starters(Ivory and Fournette) and yeldon might be able to start on a few teams then you have our KR/RB and speed demon Corey grant whos shown big play abilities when given a chance on the edge or on Fake Punts(hes got like 2 50 yarders this year).  

TE im guessing would go to the jags but honestly neither are really that good at TE. 

[Jlowe22]

3 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

ts pretty easy to create more yards then any other back when hes Being used as a Change of Pace guy so after the defense is gassed from ingram then u hit them with some speed/Agility and yep your gonna get a higher average. 

i bet if u took Kamara to the jags and fournette to the saints(its a simple straight up switch) i gurantee you Kamara wont look as explosive as he does.  

just cuz im bored lets compare offensive guys:

Saints have a Clear Advantage at QB, WR, OL.  no arguments can be made that the saints have a worse at those positions. 

i would say its probably a push at RB talent(we really have 3 backs who can be counted on and 2 of them are sure fire starters(Ivory and Fournette) and yeldon might be able to start on a few teams then you have our KR/RB and speed demon Corey grant whos shown big play abilities when given a chance on the edge or on Fake Punts(hes got like 2 50 yarders this year).  

TE im guessing would go to the jags but honestly neither are really that good at TE. 

Kamara isn't really the change of pace guy.  In fact, im pretty sure the first two plays of the Carolina game went to Kamara, for about 8 yards a piece.

[LinderFournette]

7 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

Kamara isn't really the change of pace guy.  In fact, im pretty sure the first two plays of the Carolina game went to Kamara, for about 8 yards a piece.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/20/saints-mark-ingram-alvin-kamara-running-back-tandem/

Quote

Ingram is used on early downs, often running up the middle behind center Max Unger and right guard Larry Warford, where he is averaging 5.9 yards per carry, 3.2 of those yards coming after contact. Ingram is also always moving forward, with both the power to run over defenders and the agility to make them miss – overall, only LeGarrette Blount has more yards per carry after contact this season, according to the game charters at Pro Football Focus.

Then, once the defense is fatigued from dealing with Ingram, Saints Coach Sean Payton uses Kamara as a change-of-pace back whose speed and elusiveness makes him difficult to contain on the edge, where he is averaging 8.1 yards per carry. Kamara is also leading all NFL running backs in yards per route run (2.4), further illustrating why the Saints running backs are a nightmare to contain.

not saying your wrong but this article says you are.  

it doesnt matter if he gets the first few carries its Pretty Evident by the Carries time share that Ingram is the hummer and kamara would be the porshe.  yes they played like 50-50 last game but hes still the change of pace guy seeing he doesnt carry the ball as much.

Ingram has 423 snaps to Kamaras 359 snaps accoring to Pro football Refrence. 

kamara has 86 carries and 60 catches. Ingram 180 Carries and 42 catches.  if thats not enough proof to say Kamara is a Change of Pace Back then i dont know what to tell ya. 

[Jlowe22]

36 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/20/saints-mark-ingram-alvin-kamara-running-back-tandem/

not saying your wrong but this article says you are.  

it doesnt matter if he gets the first few carries its Pretty Evident by the Carries time share that Ingram is the hummer and kamara would be the porshe.  yes they played like 50-50 last game but hes still the change of pace guy seeing he doesnt carry the ball as much.

Ingram has 423 snaps to Kamaras 359 snaps accoring to Pro football Refrence. 

kamara has 86 carries and 60 catches. Ingram 180 Carries and 42 catches.  if thats not enough proof to say Kamara is a Change of Pace Back then i dont know what to tell ya. 

Yes, my point was he doesn't need Ingram to wear defenses down, and he can produce as the number 1 guy.  

Like I've said before, his YPC would go down if he was the primary back, but people acting like he's ONLY producing because he's not the primary back are just wrong.  He's shown he could be an elite number 1.

[GamedayGuru]

I am a fournette fan, loved watching him at LSU, and he looks great in the pros. It' a toss up between he and kamara, but i do believe kamara has more yards after contact this year.

[GamedayGuru]

How do we find out fournette and kamaras yards after contact and broken or forced missed tackles anyone?

[tyler735]

56 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

ts pretty easy to create more yards then any other back when hes Being used as a Change of Pace guy so after the defense is gassed from ingram then u hit them with some speed/Agility and yep your gonna get a higher average. 

Lol no it's not pretty easy to do so. You are making so many assumptions. Kamara makes people miss/huge plays throughout the game. Not after some mythical idea of Ingram wearing out the defense so Kamara can take advantage. That is absolutely not true. Literally look at the first half of the last 2 games for Kamara. He has destroyed teams.

56 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

i bet if u took Kamara to the jags and fournette to the saints(its a simple straight up switch) i gurantee you Kamara wont look as explosive as he does.  

The classic "I bet such and such/trade places" game. I bet if Fournette was on the Saints he wouldn't look nearly as good as Kamara does now. 

56 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

just cuz im bored lets compare offensive guys:

Saints have a Clear Advantage at QB, WR, OL.  no arguments can be made that the saints have a worse at those positions. 

i would say its probably a push at RB talent(we really have 3 backs who can be counted on and 2 of them are sure fire starters(Ivory and Fournette) and yeldon might be able to start on a few teams then you have our KR/RB and speed demon Corey grant whos shown big play abilities when given a chance on the edge or on Fake Punts(hes got like 2 50 yarders this year).  

I'd say you are wrong. The Saints have way more talent at RB. At this point, Fournette has done nothing to make me think he would start over Ingram, or Kamara. We let Ivory go a few years ago. This isn't saying that Fournette/Ivory aren't a nice talented duo. They are. However, Kamara/Ingram is a much better duo at this time. If you want to argue that you have a better 3rd/4th string RB you may have a case, but it's hardly relevant. 

 

The fact remains. Kamara has done special things this season. There is a reason he is getting constant praise from Fans, Media, etc, and will likely win rookie of the week for the 5th straight week this week.

http://www.nfl.com/voting/rookies/2017/REG/13