What moves will Andrew Berry make at the Quarterback Position this Offseason?

[FGK]

4 hours ago, big poppa pump said:

Not sure if you are being your usual condescending pos self

Look it's a sensitive topic, but there's no excuse here for turning it into personal insults.

This is a warning. 

Let's dump this topic until an actionable Watson rumor comes out.

[FGK]

2 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Welcome @ET80 the fact that we’re talking about Watson should give you an idea on how some of us feel about Baker.

The people who like Baker do so because:

1. He broke a rookie record that’s no longer even a record because of our pass happy league.

2. He has a strong arm.

3. He put up average QB stats last year.

That’s it. He’s maybe borderline top 15.

This isn't a remotely accurate evaluation, but okay. It is about par for the course. Other than @MWil23 and a couple others, most of those who lean negative on Mayfield have tended to misunderstand those who lean positive from the beginning.

If I had to give reasons to be positive on Mayfield...
1. From mid 2020-end of season he was playing like a top 8-10 QB and led the team to a post-season win for the first time in 30ish years.
2. Pre-injury 2021 he looked solid in the first couple games, like he might be able to build on 2020 and keep it rolling.
3. Rookie season managed to look competent with HUE JACKSON AND FREDDIE KITCHENS COACHING.
4. College evaluation as hyper accurate and strong armed.

There are clearly reasons to be worried, or even out, at this point. His play this season (we can't know for sure how much the injury was at cause, but if it was that bad he should've gotten surgery mid-season), his bad attitude towards the end of the season, his mechanics getting worse as the season progressed, and his general up-and-down-ness during his CLE career.

We just don't know right now, with the injury being such a big possible factor this year and the soft defensive schedule 2nd half of last year being a possible complicating factor. What the team does at QB in the off-season will show what the FO thinks.

[mtmmike]

5 hours ago, Thomas5737 said:

I took it more as a threat to dawgdish but maybe that's just the way I think. We'll see if he posts after tomorrow.

I just said good night

[NateDawg]

When he says “good night.”

[MWil23]

4 hours ago, FGK said:

This isn't a remotely accurate evaluation, but okay. It is about par for the course. Other than @MWil23 and a couple others, most of those who lean negative on Mayfield have tended to misunderstand those who lean positive from the beginning.

If I had to give reasons to be positive on Mayfield...
1. From mid 2020-end of season he was playing like a top 8-10 QB and led the team to a post-season win for the first time in 30ish years.
2. Pre-injury 2021 he looked solid in the first couple games, like he might be able to build on 2020 and keep it rolling.
3. Rookie season managed to look competent with HUE JACKSON AND FREDDIE KITCHENS COACHING.
4. College evaluation as hyper accurate and strong armed.

There are clearly reasons to be worried, or even out, at this point. His play this season (we can't know for sure how much the injury was at cause, but if it was that bad he should've gotten surgery mid-season), his bad attitude towards the end of the season, his mechanics getting worse as the season progressed, and his general up-and-down-ness during his CLE career.

We just don't know right now, with the injury being such a big possible factor this year and the soft defensive schedule 2nd half of last year being a possible complicating factor. What the team does at QB in the off-season will show what the FO thinks.

If I didn’t know better, and tin foil hat time, I’d say that Stefanski and company wanted to show the world that Baker wasn’t the guy Monday night, which is a pretty lousy way to go about it, but let’s remember that he’s not part of this front office or coaching staff regime’s plan/pick, so it may have been to show Jimmy proof “hey we tried” to sell him on moving on.

The vague speak from Stefanski after the game combined with Baker saying he left everything out there for the team (he absolutely did) and he’d talk with his agent sounded like a guy desperate to be a starting quarterback anywhere, let alone in Cleveland. The whole language was really interesting to me, regardless of emotions being heightened.

[Bonanza23]

7 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Welcome @ET80 the fact that we’re talking about Watson should give you an idea on how some of us feel about Baker.

 

The people who like Baker do so because:

1. He broke a rookie record that’s no longer even a record because of our pass happy league.

2. He has a strong arm.

3. He put up average QB stats last year.

 

That’s it. He’s maybe borderline top 15.

Oh lord. 

[Bonanza23]

7 hours ago, NateDawg said:

Absolutely not an option here I hope. My kids are at an age that they are starting to root for the Browns and understand football a little bit. I’m also trying to teach them values. 

Commendable. 

[ET80]

8 hours ago, candyman93 said:

Welcome @ET80 the fact that we’re talking about Watson should give you an idea on how some of us feel about Baker.

No, I totally get it - we had this conversation in Gen and I tried to convince myself and others it was the injury.

It's not, it's absolutely not. Baker has lost the confidence of everyone in the building - including himself. It's a death spiral right now with the Mayfield era, trying to stick with it because of the fear of the unknown is a recipe for disaster.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, ET80 said:

No, I totally get it - we had this conversation in Gen and I tried to convince myself and others it was the injury.

It's not, it's absolutely not. Baker has lost the confidence of everyone in the building - including himself. It's a death spiral right now with the Mayfield era, trying to stick with it because of the fear of the unknown is a recipe for disaster.

It’s not a fear of the unknown so much as a fear of the “known” ie the draft class.  
 

I think saying “Mayfield ain’t it, we need to get someone better” is easy.  Finding that guy who’s actually better?  Not so easy.  I’m not saying he’s great, but I don’t think just any QB walks in here with this bag of turds we have at WR and starts lighting up the scoreboard.

I’m all for trying to improve any position, but it’s not as easy as saying “we need a better QB” and then going and getting one. Teams regularly trade high value assets for QB’s most here consider trash for this exact reason.  Teams package multiple firsts with the hopes of hitting on a stud for this exact reason.  
 

There’s let’s say 10 good starting QB’s in the league.  The others have flaws to varying degrees. If it were as simple as picking up a star QB day 2 of the draft like you can at other positions, sign me up, but it’s not.

[mtmmike]

2 hours ago, NateDawg said:

When he says “good night.”

How are you doing nate

How about good morning. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Additionally, I’ll take my chances on Mayfield (or any other high pick with the physical talent that accompanies those guys) figuring things out a bit years 5-7 than I would some try hard from Directional State A&M drafted day 2 or 3.

[mtmmike]

39 minutes ago, ET80 said:

No, I totally get it - we had this conversation in Gen and I tried to convince myself and others it was the injury.

It's not, it's absolutely not. Baker has lost the confidence of everyone in the building - including himself. It's a death spiral right now with the Mayfield era, trying to stick with it because of the fear of the unknown is a recipe for disaster.

He was sacked 9 times that is a real fear. 

Thank you for reasons 

Last year he put 46 on Pittsburgh in

The playoffs. 

This year he had 3 wins 1 loss and was a top 7 qb when Injured

He beat Cousins, Lamar, Burrows 

Lost to San Diego, Aaron Rodgers,

And Mahomes that makes him 3 wins 4 losses against the top qbs in the NFL with a line that surrendered

9 sacks and the worst set of wr sense we came back.

[NateDawg]

16 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

How are you doing nate

How about good morning. 

Good day to you sir.

[MWil23]

14 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Additionally, I’ll take my chances on Mayfield (or any other high pick with the physical talent that accompanies those guys) figuring things out a bit years 5-7 than I would some try hard from Directional State A&M drafted day 2 or 3.

No question. They need to have a 2023 and beyond plan though for everyone's sake...or a 2022 and beyond one if it means putting together an insane package for an ELITE QB talent via trade. I don't want lateral moves like Jimmy G, who has injury concerns and physical/turnover limitations. I'd be open to Cousins, but I wouldn't be pumped, as he's an upgrade but still has flaws.

[ET80]

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

It’s not a fear of the unknown so much as a fear of the “known” ie the draft class.  

I'll be the first to admit I don't like this QB class, but every time I think about how this draft class is labeled as bad - I remember how people declared Watson was a 3rd round quality QB with poor velocity, how Pat Mahomes was a gunslinger who put up inflated numbers in a gimmicky offense and a 2nd round guy at best... and how Josh Rosen and Sam Darnold were Day 1 starters and immediate contributors the following draft.

I'm not saying there's a Mahomes or Watson in this draft, nor am I saying that it's a green room full of Rosen's. It's a crapshoot, but you have to trust the evaluation process in some capacity.

24 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I think saying “Mayfield ain’t it, we need to get someone better” is easy.  Finding that guy who’s actually better?  Not so easy.

I don't personally think finding a guy who is better is easy, but I'm more interested in finding a guy who is more consistent. The variances between good Baker and bad Baker are all over the place, it's pretty much the difference between being competitive and not being competitive as a franchise.

Finding a caretaker - a guy who isn't going to win or lose games, someone who will play to the confines of what the offense can do and what the defense is giving them - is more important than finding the guy who can carry the team on their shoulders for drives at a time, IMO. I honestly thought that's what Baker was turning into, a caretaker with sprinkles of greatness. I haven't seen that this season. It could be due to injury, sure - but if it is, there's the possibility that this is simply how he is now (think Cam after TJ Watt planted him).

That's my opinion, at least - I am admittedly not as engaged as you guys, so corrections to my assessment are welcomed.