broncosfan_101 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: Freeman, Manuel, Bridgewater, Haskins, and Love all had that thing too. Include the top of the second round and you have guys like Geno Smith (hit-ish? Not for the jets), and Jalen hurts (definite hit) to go with Deshine Kiser, Desmond Ridder (in the same boat as Pickett), Malik Willis who did not hit as well as Jimmy G and Derrick Carr (both hits) who don’t fit your narrative. the actual story to me is if you’re not picking a QB in the top 10 you better have a damn good coach. Certainly not saying that every QB with that thing is going to hit. And with the rise of guys like Mahomes, Hurts, Watson, Lamar, Love, Tua(?), Stroud, Dak, Kyler, Russ, and probably a few more that I’m missing, that thing might finally be a non-issue going forward? The point was more about how it seems like teams were willing to reach for a 1st round QB (or maybe design/tweak an offence) who *don’t* have that thing. And that historically, we’ve probably been more dismissive about QB’s with that thing. I just find it super interesting, it takes me back to my sociology days in university. Definitely not thinking about this as a potential new market inefficiency. Haha 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bMiller031 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 Watched a lot of Penix this year and his regret potential (both ways) is so high. He’s such a cool steady operator, makes all the throws, GREAT placement, leader. BUT he also played in a QB friendly system w/ the best OL and WR groups in the country. Zero sacks in the CFP and only 11 all season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 I still need to check out more defensive guys but this draft is notably poor on that side of the ball. As of now I would be very happy with any of the following: QB: Williams, Maye, Daniels, Penix RB: None TE: Bowers (I think Sean Payton would LOVE him) WR: MHJ, Nabers, Odunze OL: Fashanu, Alt, (After a trade down: Fuaga, Fautanu, Suamataia) There's a ton of early round talent at OL but we don't really have a big need after going all out in FA last year. Could potentially see a Bolles replacement though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 2 hours ago, bMiller031 said: Watched a lot of Penix this year and his regret potential (both ways) is so high. He’s such a cool steady operator, makes all the throws, GREAT placement, leader. BUT he also played in a QB friendly system w/ the best OL and WR groups in the country. Zero sacks in the CFP and only 11 all season. As a Husky fan, I absolutely love Penix. His injury history is overrated given how he has bounced back from them all to be the player he has been the past two years. None of his previous injuries should or have impacted him going forward. This isn't a WR who tears their Achilles situation. The only concern is will he get injured again which would be the concern for any other QB as well. No doubt he has an incredibly talented WR core in Odunze, Polk and Mcmillan. While all three have faced some injury concerns throughout this past year they have largely been available for Penix. This is where watching the games makes a big difference. Do the WRs make the QB or does the QB make the WR or are they both frankly some of the top players. I think they all complement each others talents but for Penix specifically, you need to see his ball placement and accuracy. The Sugar Bowl game is a fantastic example of those traits. He consistently places the ball in between defenders, across the entire field, and in the best spots for his players to make a play. He has a really talented offensive line but looking to Russ as an example of a QB who makes his line look worse, or Peyton Manning/Mahomes as examples of a QB who makes his line look better than it is, I think Penix falls in the latter group. Penix faced a lot of pressure in the Sugar Bowl and yet made great throws to the right read. While he doesn't run much, he is able to manipulate the pocket well enough but really its his processing ability that allows him to get the ball out without taking many sacks. A common negative against him is his offense. They use a ton of pre snap shifts (wish we used more of this to help confuse defenses and figure out what coverage they're using) but the routes and concepts are nfl level. They're not a heavy RPO team, they're not super gimmicky, they're not THAT different from current nfl offenses (let alone a Sean Payton offense which is a little different from most as well). Lastly, for age conscious drafters Penix showed his talent in 2019 and 2020 (where he put up 491 yards and 35 points against the #3 ranked Ohio State at age 20) Ultimately I think he's a fantastic fit for a Sean Payton offense as he's incredibly accurate, smart, and able to play on time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 6 hours ago, broncos67 said: Because we were firmly competing for Caleb and Maye at that point lol. Now that we improved record-wise, those guys are out of play. My memory is no QB was worth drafting in R1 outside of surefire can't miss Caleb and Maye, regardless of draft position. I know that opinion wasn't universally held, but I recall it was substantial. I'm not questioning the talent, more so the mentality of it's ok to roll the dice because we really need a QB. I'd counter this with let's build a better roster by acquiring additional picks via trading back, especially R1...as many as make sense value wise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncosfan_101 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 4 hours ago, bMiller031 said: Watched a lot of Penix this year and his regret potential (both ways) is so high. He’s such a cool steady operator, makes all the throws, GREAT placement, leader. BUT he also played in a QB friendly system w/ the best OL and WR groups in the country. Zero sacks in the CFP and only 11 all season. Sort of like what @grizmo78 said, a lot of that comes from a quick release, really astute processing, and a knack for pocket manipulation. Russ has played behind a decent-to-good OL for most of his career, yet is always bottom 3 in sacks/hurries allowed. Skill-wise, he’s probably in the Caleb/Maye tier. But the injury history, and being 18-24 months older than those guys are two really significant drawbacks. More risk, less projection. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 hours ago, The Helicopter said: My memory is no QB was worth drafting in R1 outside of surefire can't miss Caleb and Maye, regardless of draft position. I know that opinion wasn't universally held, but I recall it was substantial. I'm not questioning the talent, more so the mentality of it's ok to roll the dice because we really need a QB. I'd counter this with let's build a better roster by acquiring additional picks via trading back, especially R1...as many as make sense value wise. For the record, this is the play I am in favor of as well. I like playing with the mock simulators and my goal is to trade back for multiple 2nds and future picks. My dream is to land both T’Vondre Sweat and Sedrick Van Pram and secure the middle of both lines for the future. That being said if we trade back to the 20s and grab Penix I wouldn’t hate it. If he stays injury free as a pure prospect he’s in the Williams/Maye tier. But the risk is real. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 15 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: For the record, this is the play I am in favor of as well. I like playing with the mock simulators and my goal is to trade back for multiple 2nds and future picks. My dream is to land both T’Vondre Sweat and Sedrick Van Pram and secure the middle of both lines for the future. That being said if we trade back to the 20s and grab Penix I wouldn’t hate it. If he stays injury free as a pure prospect he’s in the Williams/Maye tier. But the risk is real. I’d love to get both of the Texas DTs if possible. Studs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: My dream is to land both T’Vondre Sweat and Sedrick Van Pram and secure the middle of both lines for the future. That being said if we trade back to the 20s and grab Penix I wouldn’t hate it. If he stays injury free as a pure prospect he’s in the Williams/Maye tier. But the risk is real. I had that same dream in 2022. I figured with a bit of draft day maneuvering we could land both Jordan Davis and Tyler Linderbaum. Turns out they fell in positions that collectively added up almost exactly to the draft value of our 1st and 2nd picks. When we traded for Russ that dream was pretty much over. Anyway, the center position has me real curious. From what little I've seen Cush made a pretty good jump this year. I'm only seeing maybe 15% of the snaps but he doesn't seem as "lost in space" as in the past. Also, they kept Forsyth on the 53 all year. That should mean something, especially with Cush becoming an UFA. Funny, but the two guys who disappointed me were Powers and Mcglinchy. I'd love to see a replacement for Powers and Sean does love his IOL. Also, is Sweat really that big? I've seen6'4", 360 but still running a 5 flat 40. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 I don't follow college football - so am relying on you guys for info - but just as I wanted us to draft Fields in 2021 - if Penix is potentially the guy then you have to draft him. We have been in QB hell now for nearly a decade and you need to have a QB who can get the job done before you can compete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 9 hours ago, AKRNA said: Also, is Sweat really that big? I've seen6'4", 360 but still running a 5 flat 40. I’ve watched a bunch of longhorns football this season living between San Antonio and Austin as I do. I would argue that sweat is the mvp of that team this season. Kid eats triple teams all day and still collapses the interior pocket and can shed to make the play on the RB. Won’t ever post great sack numbers as he lacks burst but frees up the edge rushers and gives the QB no where to escape to. Dude is a more athletic Ted Washington. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, jolly red giant said: I don't follow college football - so am relying on you guys for info - but just as I wanted us to draft Fields in 2021 - if Penix is potentially the guy then you have to draft him. We have been in QB hell now for nearly a decade and you need to have a QB who can get the job done before you can compete. I agree. However, my counter argument would be that if we are going to eat that much dead cap the next season or two we need to embrace the rebuild. Drafting Penix (who again, I like) would mean that by the time we’re looking to compete we would have a 26yo QB with only 2 cap controlled years left. conversely, we trade back, accumulate 2nd rounders this year and draft capital for the future and make a push next draft. Carson Beck, Drew Allar (kid will be complete his junior year as a 20 year old!), Shadeur Sanders, Jaxson Dart, and Connor Weigman all have potential to be top 10 picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grizmo78 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: I’ve watched a bunch of longhorns football this season living between San Antonio and Austin as I do. I would argue that sweat is the mvp of that team this season. Kid eats triple teams all day and still collapses the interior pocket and can shed to make the play on the RB. Won’t ever post great sack numbers as he lacks burst but frees up the edge rushers and gives the QB no where to escape to. Dude is a more athletic Ted Washington. Hey Hey! Fellow Austinite. I always assumed you lived in the UK for some reason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 58 minutes ago, grizmo78 said: Hey Hey! Fellow Austinite. I always assumed you lived in the UK for some reason When I joined the forum….19ish years ago I did! Never thought I’d still be talking broncos football with you all! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 17 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: For the record, this is the play I am in favor of as well. I like playing with the mock simulators and my goal is to trade back for multiple 2nds and future picks. My dream is to land both T’Vondre Sweat and Sedrick Van Pram and secure the middle of both lines for the future. That being said if we trade back to the 20s and grab Penix I wouldn’t hate it. If he stays injury free as a pure prospect he’s in the Williams/Maye tier. But the risk is real. I don't necessarily have an issue with this approach, especially if the top of the draft is really QB heavy because trading up would be so prohibitive. That said, if we trade back to acquire picks, it begs the question : who is anyone trading up for? I guess someone could trade up for a QB and we move back. But I assume this also means we are okay with punting 2024 and rolling with Stidham for a year while we wait for next year's draft. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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