MrOaktown_56 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 On 1/31/2022 at 9:50 AM, Soggust said: You mean like Mahomes' first TD where runs for his life and leaps for the TD on 3rd down?https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=109 Maybe his second TD where he manages to barely get off the throw? https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=290 I'm sure you're choosing only to remember his 3rd to Hill here where, albeit a nice throw in stride, this is CLEARLY all Hill here https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=817 Does it not matter that he pinpoints a dime to Kelce to win the game in OT? https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=995 Well let's look at Allen's TDs -> #1 ) Davis wide open, not sure if that was busted coverage or he just cooked the guy https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=344 #2) Davis over the top (he may be 'open', but this is an absolutely dope throw for sure) https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=552 #3) Davis wide open literally ruining the defender's career https://youtu.be/n1dp2ZKi0cc?t=774 #4) Davis is wide open for NFL standards but not quite as much as before, but its also a great throw too) ------------------ We can go through 'key plays' as well if you really want. There are plenty of Mahomes key 3rd down conversions and plenty for Allen. But we are splitting hairs so much at that point that I think my main point still stands. There is no argument for Allen being clearly better throughout the course of the game. A game he lost (which is the icing, not the batter). And that game is basically the biggest argument for taking Allen over Mahomes to win a SB next year. Except Mahomes literally already has one and has been better in the regular season throughout the course of their careers. It's not that Allen is bad whatsoever or can't possibly be better or anything, it's that to this point in their careers, there's really no argument for taking Allen over Mahomes sans being a fan/hater. In all the ways Allen is great, Mahomes has been better so far. In fact, I think Allen has a better argument against Rodgers than Mahomes and I think Rodgers is probably better than Mahomes, if that makes sense. I'm somewhere between both of you fwiw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted February 5, 2022 Share Posted February 5, 2022 (edited) On 1/31/2022 at 6:17 PM, Bullet Club said: Then I doubt your evaluation ability. Allen was running for his life, shaking guys off his back to throw dimes or fight for tough yardage and converting 4th downs like his life depended it. A lot of Mahomes numbers late came from throwing to an unguarded Kelce or watching Tyreke outrun four guys with an angle on him. Again, not to take away from the magic he was working in the pocket too but when the best TE in the NFL isn't guarded on numerous key plays it makes your job much easier. This is obviously a simplistic, generalized breakdown but I don't think you're going to change your mind regardless of evidence presented. Mahomes was under alot of pressure in the Bills game. KC has one of the most ineffective pass rushes in the NFL. They got one sack on Burrow This is the second postseason where Mahomes put up 12 touchdowns. He’s the only player to do that in NFL history and he’s done it twice. Mahomes receivers weren’t anymore open than Allen’s. I feel people looked at the stat sheet and didn’t actually watch the game. There’s an assumption that Allen carried Gabe Davis, but if anyone carried anybody, it was Davis carrying Allen. Both QBs had fantastic games but Mahomes had the higher passer rating in the regular season and his performance in the divisional doesn’t take a bad seat to Allen in any way Edited February 5, 2022 by Nightime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I dont think i could give it to Mahomes. If we put Josh Allen on a team with Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill youd see that its way closer than this poll indicates. Heck without having 2 elite receivers like Mahomes has they have practically the same stats the past 2 years. Mahomes: 66.3% 10,268 Total Yards 79 Total TDs 25 Total Turnovers Allen: 66.1% 10,147 Total Yards 87 Total TDs 34 Total Turnovers Allen finds the endzone more than Mahomes while Mahomes protected the football more. Both teams have arguably a top 5 WR. Now imagine if Josh Allen also had the best TE in the game. Sure you could argue that Josh Allen has a better defense but that doesnt make Josh Allen stats look any better other than help with wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancerman Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 I feel like most people will say Mahomes, but Mahomes also easily has the best passing talent by healthy margin so it's kind of against the spirit of a thread to be roster agnostic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HERBO Posted February 6, 2022 Share Posted February 6, 2022 Mahommes out of the 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 17 hours ago, HERBO said: Mahommes out of the 3 To be clear it would still be Mahomes if it included your QB, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightspiral7 Posted February 7, 2022 Share Posted February 7, 2022 (edited) Mahomes is the answer, as he's the only guy on this with the potential to close out his career ahead of Brady/Montana as the QB GOAT. Rodgers had the talent to be the GOAT, but clearly lacks the intangibles that Brady/Montana had. Josh Allen is a wonderful QB, but he's not a generational type player the way Mahomes is. But given the horrible luck of the franchise, I'm rooting for him to pull off what Jim Kelly could never do. Edited February 7, 2022 by Tightspiral7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soggust Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 If Mahomes 2018+2019 didn't exist, I honestly think Allen would have a really good argument. But regardless, Mahomes has shown me a ceiling (and floor) significantly higher than Allen and enough consistency to make me believe he is the easy answer on any bare roster. I'm willing to adjust for having Kelce and Reid, but not enough to bring Allen in line with 50 TDs or a Super Bowl. Next year, however, this conversation could certainly be different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 On 2/6/2022 at 7:24 AM, Kmart128 said: I dont think i could give it to Mahomes. If we put Josh Allen on a team with Travis Kelce and Tyreek Hill youd see that its way closer than this poll indicates. Heck without having 2 elite receivers like Mahomes has they have practically the same stats the past 2 years. Mahomes: 66.3% 10,268 Total Yards 79 Total TDs 25 Total Turnovers Allen: 66.1% 10,147 Total Yards 87 Total TDs 34 Total Turnovers Allen finds the endzone more than Mahomes while Mahomes protected the football more. Both teams have arguably a top 5 WR. Now imagine if Josh Allen also had the best TE in the game. Sure you could argue that Josh Allen has a better defense but that doesnt make Josh Allen stats look any better other than help with wins. Defense certainly does make his stats look better. How do you think Mahomes’ stats would look if he had 25 extra possessions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kmart128 Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 12 hours ago, Yin-Yang said: Defense certainly does make his stats look better. How do you think Mahomes’ stats would look if he had 25 extra possessions? Well Patrick Mahomes has had 1246 pass attempts... Josh Allen has had 1218. I dont think Mahomes would have almost 30 extra pass attempts if he had 25 less possessions. 30 attempts is almost a whole games worth of passes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 21 minutes ago, Kmart128 said: Well Patrick Mahomes has had 1246 pass attempts... Josh Allen has had 1218. I dont think Mahomes would have almost 30 extra pass attempts if he had 25 less possessions. 30 attempts is almost a whole games worth of passes.. The Bills offense had 25 more possessions than the Chiefs offense in the last two seasons, which is the timeframe you posted the stats for. You can think or not think whatever you want, the number of offensive drives is a stat right there on PFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 8, 2022 Share Posted February 8, 2022 Allen Mahomes Rodgers All things equal I think Allen > Mahomes. Give Allen the cast of Reid, Hill, Kelce and co... he'd be doing what Patty is and then some imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 KC scored more points per drive and gained more yards per drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizeGuy Posted February 9, 2022 Share Posted February 9, 2022 (edited) You could argue Allen has been equal to or slightly better the past two regular seasons and this year's playoffs. They've been really close. The hardware argument for Mahomes is legit, too, but if Allen continues his stellar play during the biggest games of the year, then he's going to win a Superbowl sooner rather than later. That's still an if, though. Also, probably needs an MVP, too. Too bad Rodgers was a man possessed last year, or Allen would've had one already. Truly amazing season by him. As a Bills fan, I'm just glad to have a QB who is even in Mahomes stratosphere. Mahomes is a phenomenal talent. Allen is as well. Enjoy these monsters going head to head in many great games for the next decade +. Should be fun! Edited February 9, 2022 by WizeGuy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightime Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 (edited) 17 hours ago, WizeGuy said: You could argue Allen has been equal to or slightly better the past two regular seasons and this year's playoffs. They've been really close. The hardware argument for Mahomes is legit, too, but if Allen continues his stellar play during the biggest games of the year, then he's going to win a Superbowl sooner rather than later. That's still an if, though. Also, probably needs an MVP, too. Too bad Rodgers was a man possessed last year, or Allen would've had one already. Truly amazing season by him. As a Bills fan, I'm just glad to have a QB who is even in Mahomes stratosphere. Mahomes is a phenomenal talent. Allen is as well. Enjoy these monsters going head to head in many great games for the next decade +. Should be fun! Maybe But Mahomes has been the best playoff QB since 2019. And statistically it’s not close Since 2019, he has 25 touchdown passes. For perspective, Rodgers has 9, Brady has 13. Second place is actually…Josh Allen with 14 I just think these ridiculous numbers and accomplishments can get overlooked sometimes Allen is a touchdown scoring machine though and in 2021 he managed to bring that in the playoffs Edited February 10, 2022 by Nightime 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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