The Steelers QB Conundrum

[43M]

 

 

Jimmy Garappolo

I know many are very opposed to trading for him, and I wouldnt give up much, but whether people like it or not, its likely a real possibility that they at least "kick the tires".    

Pros:   Jimmy G is kind of a jack of all trades QB, insomuch that he is pretty decent in most areas.     Solid mobility, solid accuracy, usually solid decision making, etc.   He has proven he is a QB that can make plays when needed.    People will bash him for the ones he didnt make, but Ben didnt make alot of plays we needed him to either, especially in the postseason.   Jimmy  G would be an easy upgrade over what we currently have, and could be a solid stop gap for a few years.  

Oh....and his face.    At the very least, we would go from having one of the ugliest QBs to one of the prettiest....ya know....cuz that matters.   😁

Cons:     While Jimmy G may be a jack of all trades.....you know what usually comes after that?     Master of none.      He doesnt really excel at anything either.    He is just kinda....there.      You can win with him.....with the right team.     We dont really have the "right team".       He is definitely an easy upgrade over Rudolph, but that doesnt mean he would lead us to more success.   If this were a team like 2019, I would easily take Jimmy G over Rudolph, and he wouldve probably got us a few extra wins and playoff appearance.     But as for the 2022 Steelers, I dont think they can offer him what he needs to succeed.   He is a game manager, and while thats fine for a stop gap....it isnt worth the likely cost for his services.

Bottom Line:   I guess it all comes down to what you think this team can/will be in 2022.     If you believe you can put enough pieces around him to allow him to manage the game...he might be worth it.    However, as the team looks now, it might be best to just get a cheap free agent.    Hell, it might even be better to roll with Rudolph....not because he is better, but because all Garropolo would likely do is win us another game or two, which would put us further out of range of a potential QB in 2023.     We have too many holes to be trading high picks....especially for a QB who cant really make up for any of those deficiencies.  

Chances of being the Steelers QB next season:    3/10.      Maybe a 5/10 if he gets cut.

[jebrick]

Just say no to Jimmy G especially if they need to trade for him.  If he barely makes it under Shanahan's offense, he would die with the Steelers.  Why sign a QB that his other coach does not trust when the game gets on the line.  Trent Dilfer, he is not.

[jebrick]

This is really great stuff. Big applause to the gentleman for putting this together. He charted every throw of this year’s QB class and ranks the accuracy of each QB according to the category of the throw: deep, outside numbers, over the middle, and dink n dunk.

Discuss!

https://www.risendraft.com/features-articles/2022-quarterback-charting

 

You will get to see the offense these QBs ran.  Willis for example has almost no passes in the middle of the field.  Corral threw very few deep balls.  Zappe ran the Steeler offense with enormous numbers of shot passes

Edited February 4, 2022 by jebrick

[Cbrunn]

I think I'm all in on picket or Willis 

I just want someone to make me excited and slightly optimistic 

None of these other QBs in FA or jimmy g makes me excited

[cjfollett]

15 hours ago, 43M said:

What exactly has Rudolph flashed?   What "goodness"?  

Then I don't think you're being honest in your evaluation. Looking back at 2019, Rudolph was getting better every game. Then the play against Baltimore happened. It was a really good play by Rudolph, but he got cheap-shotted by Earl Thomas, and then he took awhile to get his footing again. I'd say he played gun-shy. After getting benched, he came back and played well against the Jets when they benched the Duck. He also had a decent game versus Cleveland in the final game of 2020 season. He made some nice plays versus Detroit in 2021, but not enough. His receivers let him down in OT with the fumbles, but he didn't do enough in regulation to win that game.

 

16 hours ago, 43M said:

They may not know WHO exactly, but they know they arent content with what they have now.

They really don't know, because there is no real alternative at this point. You look at these draft prospects, and again if you're honest with yourself, they aren't any better than Rudolph or Haskins. Pickett has a shot, perhaps, but his arm is not stronger than Rudolph's. Howell, Willis, and Corral are all short, run-first guys. Strong is a statue. So, they MIGHT take one of them, but there is almost no chance any of them are starters game 1 of 2022.

They also MIGHT bring in some free agent(s) to compete. That would be my guess. But when you look at the guys available, who stands out? Tyrod Taylor? Jacoby Brissett? Mariota, Trubisky, Cam Newton? Get real. None of the available guys are any better either.

So, while I agree with you that they may not be content (as you called it) with Rudolph as the 2022 day 1 starter, he will be given every opportunity to earn or lose the job, barring some unforeseen trade with GB, SEA, or other team with a franchise QB. 

If I were in the Steelers front office, I would be banging the table to hold off on drafting a QB this year for several of the guys coming out next year. Of course, that goes against the win-now mentality. 

[August4th]

 

[jebrick]

11 minutes ago, August4th said:

 

A trade up for a QB in this draft would be a nightmare scenario.

[Dcash4]

11 minutes ago, August4th said:

 

There is a limit to what I would do, but I would move up for Willis. I would not move up for Pickett. Pickett's best case scenario is probably like a top 15 guy. Willis best case is top 2-3 QB in the entire league. One of those is worth moving up for, the other isn't. 

[Blitzburgh]

 

Where I really struggle with Willis is will the Steelers go all in on him and build a non conventional team and offense around him like the Ravens did with Lamar Jackson?  
 

Will he just end up being the next RGIII bc we don’t have the OL and pieces to make it work for a few seasons?

 

[43M]

3 hours ago, cjfollett said:

Then I don't think you're being honest in your evaluation.

Or maybe youre just overrating what Rudolph actually brings to the table.

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Looking back at 2019, Rudolph was getting better every game. Then the play against Baltimore happened. It was a really good play by Rudolph, but he got cheap-shotted by Earl Thomas, and then he took awhile to get his footing again. I'd say he played gun-shy. After getting benched, he came back and played well against the Jets when they benched the Duck. He also had a decent game versus Cleveland in the final game of 2020 season.

They had to use him in an extremely conservative way because of how limited he is.   They gameplanned him not to make mistakes, very similar to how they used Ben the last couple years.    

Rudolph didnt even notably outplay Devlin Hodges.   Hodges was a UDFA rookie who barely got any reps or time to learn, and while he eventually crashed, he showed flashes of being able to manage the game just as well as Rudolph...who was a top 100 pick who knew the offense by that point.

Im still curious as to

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They really don't know, because there is no real alternative at this point.

Just because they dont know WHO doesnt mean they dont know they want better options....which I guarantee they do.

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You look at these draft prospects, and again if you're honest with yourself, they aren't any better than Rudolph or Haskins.

Im not a fan of drafting a QB this year.  That being said...at least the rookies have upside.   Rudolph has NONE.

Haskins...meh.    

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Pickett has a shot, perhaps, but his arm is not stronger than Rudolph's.

He is better in most other areas though...plus he has upside.

I would never draft him rd 1 though.

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Howell, Willis, and Corral are all short, run-first guys. Strong is a statue. So, they MIGHT take one of them, but there is almost no chance any of them are starters game 1 of 2022.

I can largely agree with that.

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They also MIGHT bring in some free agent(s) to compete. That would be my guess. But when you look at the guys available, who stands out? Tyrod Taylor? Jacoby Brissett? Mariota, Trubisky, Cam Newton? Get real. None of the available guys are any better either.

Okay....then Rudolph should have no problem beating any of them out....right?

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So, while I agree with you that they may not be content (as you called it) with Rudolph as the 2022 day 1 starter, he will be given every opportunity to earn or lose the job, barring some unforeseen trade with GB, SEA, or other team with a franchise QB. 

I agree he will likely be given an opportunity to win it....but they will undoubtedly bring in at least one QB....hell, maybe 2 more.

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If I were in the Steelers front office, I would be banging the table to hold off on drafting a QB this year for several of the guys coming out next year. Of course, that goes against the win-now mentality. 

I dont completely disagree...but if they like someone enough this year, they wont pass.

I would bring in a vet, have them compete, and use the draft and free agency to improve the trenches and secondary.   Then next year, focus on QB, ILB and probably trenches again.

[43M]

3 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

There is a limit to what I would do, but I would move up for Willis. I would not move up for Pickett. Pickett's best case scenario is probably like a top 15 guy. Willis best case is top 2-3 QB in the entire league. One of those is worth moving up for, the other isn't. 

Willis has a lower floor though.

Pickett floor is likely quality career backup.

Willis floor is a future arena league MVP.

No chance in hell Id trade up for either.   Dont even want either in the first....but Id freak if we traded up for any QB in this draft.

[Dcash4]

47 minutes ago, 43M said:

Willis has a lower floor though.

Willis floor is a future arena league MVP.

I think yes and no. 

In terms of a passer? Yes, his floor is pretty much below ground. Well, I shouldn’t say that he does a lot of great stuff off script and throwing deep, but his translation to the NFL will be a leap. 

But what I like is that his floor is lifted by that running game. He is still a special athlete and a naturally gifted runner. That’s going to translate. Hurts lead the #1 rushing team in the league and that’s only because Lamar got hurt. He isn’t Lamar, but I think he is a special enough athlete to allow for his rushing attack to always buoy his floor  

If the worst case scenario is a top 10, top 5 rushing team….I can’t complain. 

[43M]

1 hour ago, Dcash4 said:

I think yes and no. 

In terms of a passer? Yes, his floor is pretty much below ground. Well, I shouldn’t say that he does a lot of great stuff off script and throwing deep, but his translation to the NFL will be a leap. 

But what I like is that his floor is lifted by that running game. He is still a special athlete and a naturally gifted runner. That’s going to translate. Hurts lead the #1 rushing team in the league and that’s only because Lamar got hurt. He isn’t Lamar, but I think he is a special enough athlete to allow for his rushing attack to always buoy his floor  

If the worst case scenario is a top 10, top 5 rushing team….I can’t complain. 

Ive said it before...I much prefer QBs who happen to be mobile over straight up mobile QBs.  Im not really interested in a QB who makes our running game great.   I want a QB I can trust to throw the ball.    Outside of arm strength, Im not overly impressed with his passing abilities.    He makes some nice throws, and has room to grow, but I dont see a proven first round talent.  I see first round POTENTIAL.   I see a project QB who will be drafted high based primarily on that upside...which is fine, but you have to be strategic.   Is this the team thats best suited to unlock the potential of a raw project quarterback?   I dont know about that.   At best, he sits for a year while he learns and we make other improvements to help him and it pays off.    At worst, we fail to put the pieces around him he needs and his potential is lost due to that and poor coaching.

Let me be clear.   I dont dislike Willis.    I actually think there is a lot to like.....but not as a first rounder, especially for our current team.    I can't justify taking an extremely raw, one-read QB in the first when we have soooo many other issues.

Would I absolutely loathe picking him at 20?   No....but I wouldnt be super optimistic about it either.   

Id be much more okay with him back in 2017 or 2018 when he could've sat behind Ben for a year or two and we had alot more pieces.    That's why I was behind drafting Lamar Jackson that year, who had question marks but was more polished.   However, if we had this team back then, I would not have endorsed drafting Lamar either.

[jebrick]

15 hours ago, 43M said:

No chance in hell Id trade up for either.   Dont even want either in the first....but Id freak if we traded up for any QB in this draft.

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According to an NFL source as told to me:
"Steelers had a deal in place to move up to 17 for Justin Fields. This year, Tomlin said, "I'm not missing out on Justin Fields again."

Mike Tomlin says " hold my beer"

Edited February 5, 2022 by jebrick

[jebrick]

14 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I think yes and no. 

In terms of a passer? Yes, his floor is pretty much below ground. Well, I shouldn’t say that he does a lot of great stuff off script and throwing deep, but his translation to the NFL will be a leap. 

But what I like is that his floor is lifted by that running game. He is still a special athlete and a naturally gifted runner. That’s going to translate. Hurts lead the #1 rushing team in the league and that’s only because Lamar got hurt. He isn’t Lamar, but I think he is a special enough athlete to allow for his rushing attack to always buoy his floor  

If the worst case scenario is a top 10, top 5 rushing team….I can’t complain. 

The running QB like L. Jackson is a cute but short term thing.  If you can't be a pocket passer in the NFL your career is short.  it might be 5 years or 8 years but when those physical abilities start to fade and you start taking hits when you run, it is over.  Pocket passers still rule the NFL long term.