Alvin Kamara Arrested on Battery Charge

[Dome]

10 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Per ESPN:

"Kamara said he saw a fight break out next to him and saw the man get punched. When asked why he punched the man, Kamara indicated that he thought the man was running away and had done something to his group -- so he chased him and punched him several times."

Yeah, no temper at all. 

Screw this guy, hope he rots in jail for a bit. No excuses. But Bobby Hebert will inevitably defend him. 

 

You are using a quote being attributed to Kamara, but it isn't verbatim. Please do not trust police to accurately describe or paraphrase what someone did or said, they constantly mess that up. 

That said, you conveniently left out the part where the article says Kamara also told police that the guy called someone Kamara was with (likely Kamara's GF) "ugly" and said "I'll whup your ***" to Kamara before trying to step onto a crowded elevator with them.

Why leave that part out?

 

According to the police the video they have doesn't indicate any sort of chase happened. Nor does it indicate Kamara threw a punch until a fight had already broken out.

Also, up until this incident Kamara had not shown a temper. I said this to show that if he hit someone, there was a reason and it would've been a provoked response and there was according to the ESPN article you linked. 

 

"Kamara said the man called one of his friends ugly while they were waiting for the elevator and then later said, "I'll whup your *** too." Kamara said he saw a fight break out next to him and saw the man get punched. When asked why he punched the man, Kamara indicated that he thought the man was running away and had done something to his group -- so he chased him and punched him several times."

[according to the police] When the elevator doors opened, the man started to walk toward the elevator along with the large party. But a man later identified as Kamara put his hand on the victim's chest to stop him.

The man said he then pushed Kamara's hand off his chest, and Kamara pushed back hard enough to cause the man to stumble back. Afterward the man recalled being hit and kicked by multiple people and losing consciousness.

According to the video surveillance, the man was speaking to a woman before the events occurred as he described. After Kamara pushed the man, one of Kamara's associates punched the man in the face. Then Kamara lunged toward the man and punched him approximately eight times -- including three times after he had fallen to the ground."

 

If we want to listen to police as they summarize Kamara's version of the events and their video, let's include all of it. There was no chase. The man was talking to a woman and approaching Kamara before the attack happened. The woman is likely Kamara's GF or someone he was with, quite possibly the same woman he had called ugly earlier in the night.

 

Should Kamara have hit him? No. It doesn't sound like a threat was imminent.

But do I feel bad that a drunk guy who's going around calling random women ugly and making vague threats to do bodily harm gets roughed up when he tries to follow them onto an elevator? Also no.

Its probably unfortunate he's going to get paid, he sounds like an *** too.

 

All in all, Karama won't be in as much trouble as some think. He'll have good lawyers that will do a better job explaining all the ways Kamara and his group had been harassed by this guy and felt threatened when he tried to enter close quarters after making disparaging remarks and threats.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dome

[ronjon1990]

8 minutes ago, Dome said:

 

You are using a quote being attributed to Kamara, but it isn't verbatim. Please do not trust police to accurately describe or paraphrase what someone did or said, they constantly mess that up. 

That said, you conveniently left out the part where the article says Kamara also told police that the guy called someone Kamara was with (likely Kamara's GF) "ugly" and said "I'll whup your ***" to Kamara before trying to step onto a crowded elevator with them.

Why leave that part out?

 

According to the police the video they have doesn't indicate any sort of chase happened. Nor does it indicate Kamara threw a punch until a fight had already broken out.

Also, up until this incident Kamara had not shown a temper. I said this to show that if he hit someone, there was a reason and it would've been a provoked response and there was according to the ESPN article you linked. 

 

"Kamara said the man called one of his friends ugly while they were waiting for the elevator and then later said, "I'll whup your *** too." Kamara said he saw a fight break out next to him and saw the man get punched. When asked why he punched the man, Kamara indicated that he thought the man was running away and had done something to his group -- so he chased him and punched him several times."

[according to the police] When the elevator doors opened, the man started to walk toward the elevator along with the large party. But a man later identified as Kamara put his hand on the victim's chest to stop him.

The man said he then pushed Kamara's hand off his chest, and Kamara pushed back hard enough to cause the man to stumble back. Afterward the man recalled being hit and kicked by multiple people and losing consciousness.

According to the video surveillance, the man was speaking to a woman before the events occurred as he described. After Kamara pushed the man, one of Kamara's associates punched the man in the face. Then Kamara lunged toward the man and punched him approximately eight times -- including three times after he had fallen to the ground."

 

If we want to listen to police as they summarize Kamara's version of the events and their video, let's include all of it. There was no chase. The man was talking to a woman and approaching Kamara before the attack happened. The woman is likely Kamara's GF or someone he was with, quite possibly the same woman he had called ugly earlier in the night.

 

Should Kamara have hit him? No. It doesn't sound like a threat was imminent.

But do I feel bad that a drunk guy who's going around calling random women ugly and making vague threats to do bodily harm gets roughed up when he tries to follow them onto an elevator? Also no.

Its probably unfortunate he's going to get paid, he sounds like an *** too.

 

All in all, Karama won't be in as much trouble as some think. He'll have good lawyers that will do a better job explaining all the ways Kamara and his group had been harassed by this guy and felt threatened when he tried to enter close quarters after making disparaging remarks and threats.

Why leave out the excuses that a gang of thugs used for why they jumped a guy? 

Because I don't give a that's *** what he says happened at this point, as nothing on the planet justifies throwing punches at someone you also concurrently believe to be retreating. 

Ahhh Who Dat never fails to impress. 

Better hope the "better lawyers" of the world haven't soured to the point of going after *******s like him hard like us apparently "worse lawyers" have 🙄

Edited February 8, 2022 by ronjon1990

[Dome]

16 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Because I don't give a that's *** what he says happened at this point, as nothing on the planet justifies throwing punches at someone you also concurrently believe to be retreating. 

I didn't say it was justified, I actually said Kamara shouldn't have hit him. Big whiff.

We can agree to disagree on the second part of your statement. That's just a matter of opinion.

My opinion, is that there are some rare reasons you could justify hitting someone even if they were retreating. (There is no indication from police or their video that the guy was ever retreating, other than their paraphrasing of Kamara's story)

For example if you thought they had just attacked a member of your group and had already made threats to you and you didn't want them to flee after an assault 😉.

This is the way Kamara's lawyers will go with this I bet. Maybe even play self defense since Kamara put hands out to stop the guy from walking towards him, and the guy smacked Kamara's hands first, before the shove from Kamara and punch from Kamara's assistant.

These will be factors that will be investigated to help Kamara plead down if true (why wouldn't they be true? that series of events makes sense and what many people expected when the news dropped. drunk ******* picks fight, gets one.) the fact that you don't even want to acknowledge them tells me this will be an unproductive convo. Have a good one.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dome

[ronjon1990]

1 minute ago, Dome said:

I didn't say it was justified, I actually said Kamara shouldn't have hit him. Big whiff.

We can agree to disagree on the second part of your statement. That's just a matter of opinion.

My opinion, is that there are some rare reasons you could justify hitting someone even if they were retreating. (There is no indication from police that the guy was ever retreating, other than their paraphrasing of Kamara's story)

For example if you thought they had just attacked a member of your group and had already made threats to you and you didn't want them to flee after an assault 😉.

This is the way Kamara's lawyers will go with this I bet. Maybe even play self defense since Kamara put hands out to stop the guy from walking towards him, and the guy smacked Kamara's hands first, before the shove from Kamara and punch from Kamara's assistant.

These will be factors that will be investigated help Kamara plead down, whether you want to acknowledge them or not. The fact that you don't even want to acknowledge them tells me this will be an unproductive convo. Have a good one.

Not a snowball's chance in legal hell that could possibly carry any weight. 

If Kamara touched him first, that's assault. The guy then went to the ground. Self defense is so far out of the window it's not even hyperbole. 

But, hey, Who Dat gonna circle the wagons as usual. 

[Dome]

3 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Not a snowball's chance in legal hell that could possibly carry any weight. 

If Kamara touched him first, that's assault. The guy then went to the ground. Self defense is so far out of the window it's not even hyperbole. 

But, hey, Who Dat gonna circle the wagons as usual. 

You're acting like people don't get charges dropped or lowered because of mitigating circumstances every. single. day.

According to Kamara he put his hands out to stop the guy from walking into him, that is not Kamara touching him first.

 

I'm not talking morals and right vs wrong.

 

I'm talking about what realistically is going to happen because Kamara can afford the lawyers.

Big whiff.

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dome

[ronjon1990]

4 minutes ago, Dome said:

You're acting like people don't get charges dropped or lowered because of mitigating circumstances every. single. day.

According to Kamara he put his hands out to stop the guy from walking into him, that is not Kamara touching him first.

 

I'm not talking morals and right vs wrong.

 

I'm talking about what realistically is going to happen because Kamara can afford the lawyers.

Big whiff.

Big whiff lol. 

Ok boss, ok 👌

[winitall]

To bring this back closer to football, it seems like Kamara’s biggest issue from a suspension (and potentially legally also) standpoint is going to be what happened once the guy hit the ground. If the guy is clearly defenseless at that point in a video, I think we could see 4 to 6 games here. That is going to be much harder to explain away than anything else. The NFL has been pretty consistent over the years that image matters the most, and if it can’t pass for mutual combat Kamara is likely getting suspended. 

[Dome]

4 minutes ago, winitall said:

To bring this back closer to football, it seems like Kamara’s biggest issue from a suspension (and potentially legally also) standpoint is going to be what happened once the guy hit the ground. If the guy is clearly defenseless at that point in a video, I think we could see 4 to 6 games here. That is going to be much harder to explain away than anything else. The NFL has been pretty consistent over the years that image matters the most, and if it can’t pass for mutual combat Kamara is likely getting suspended. 

Good. We'll keep him fresh for the back half of the season when we get to face some divisional opponents who are trying to make a playoff push.

Even if the offense sucks the defense will still give fits.

 

(You are right, the hits on the ground are the biggest obstacle for Kamara... painting the guy who got hit as the harasser and instigator should be easy enough though, it seemed likely even before the entire story broke)

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dome

[Chiefer]

All parties involved in this are morons.

Id have to think Kamara is getting a suspension with video evidence handy

[SBLIII]

I don't think he goes to prison but a 6 game suspension is likely.

[BobbyPhil1781]

35 minutes ago, SBLIII said:

I don't think he goes to prison but a 6 game suspension is likely.

Too rich to go to prison for this but Goodell will want to try to save as much face as he can w/ this and I do feel a suspension will be coming in especially if there's video evidence. I just saw the guy's face and it's not the most pleasant thing I've ever seen. 

[ronjon1990]

7 minutes ago, BobbyPhil1781 said:

Too rich to go to prison for this but Goodell will want to try to save as much face as he can w/ this and I do feel a suspension will be coming in especially if there's video evidence. I just saw the guy's face and it's not the most pleasant thing I've ever seen. 

Goodell's, Alvin's, or the victim's?

[Soko]

5 hours ago, Dome said:

According to Kamara he put his hands out to stop the guy from walking into him, that is not Kamara touching him first.

From walking into the elevator*. I’d say preventing someone from entering a public space would constitute “touching first”.

[NudeTayne]

25 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Goodell's, Alvin's, or the victim's?

Yes

[Dome]

14 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

From walking into the elevator*. I’d say preventing someone from entering a public space would constitute “touching first”.

Of course, we don't know the body language or the exchange that led up to the incident... and there will be mitigating factors to consider as well.

 

Like the fact that the guy had allegedly been harassing/insulting members of Kamara's party that evening.

Or the fact that he had already allegedly threatened to assault Kamara before trying to enter the same enclosed space as him and his party.

 

Kamara might not have he right to put hands out to prevent someone from getting any closer just because he didn't want him there.

 

But he might have somewhat of a right to put hands out to prevent someone who has threatened him and harassed his lady-friend, from entering the elevator with them. It will definitely at get a second look, lots of people will get interviewed and re-interviewed I'm sure. 

Edited February 8, 2022 by Dome