Norm Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Lazard is a victim of being a UDFA that nobody ever hyped coming out. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 There's no further need to argue about Lazard. The reality is that he'll get all the opportunity he can handle this season to put up good numbers/make big plays because it's likely the Packers plan for him to be a significant part of the the offense, so the debate will be won the field when he either puts up the numbers some think he's capable of or he doesn't. If he does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and frankly I'll be ecstatic for him and the team. If he doesn't, I hope I don't get 50 new excuses why. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, packfanfb said: There's no further need to argue about Lazard. The reality is that he'll get all the opportunity he can handle this season to put up good numbers/make big plays because it's likely the Packers plan for him to be a significant part of the the offense, so the debate will be won the field when he either puts up the numbers some think he's capable of or he doesn't. If he does, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong and frankly I'll be ecstatic for him and the team. If he doesn't, I hope I don't get 50 new excuses why. Would you be OK with 51 excuses? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 Just now, squire12 said: Would you be OK with 51 excuses? I mean, I know I'll get 100 and the first 70 will be something to do with Rodgers not throwing him the ball or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R T Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 16 minutes ago, Norm said: Lazard is a victim of being a UDFA that nobody ever hyped coming out. There is so much truth to that, the same happens to later round picks that are developmental players. Most fans decide they just can't play even after they do develop into good players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PackFan13 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) Maybe lazard is a victim to his relative limited athleticism paired with having a star taking away attention the vast majority of his career. He's a #3 at best on most teams with good wrs. Blocking wise it works out since he so good in the run game but can the guy get open if we run out he and MVS as our top guys and the defense isn't having to game plan for Adams? Sure hope so, but I won't hold my breath. Edited March 20, 2022 by PackFan13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 1 minute ago, PackFan13 said: Maybe lazard is a victim to his relative limited athleticism paired with having a star taking away attention the vast majority of his career. He's a #3 at best on most teams with good wrs. Blocking wise it works out since he so good in the run game but can the guy get open if we run out he and MVS as our top guys and the defense isn't having to game plan for Adams? Sure hope so but I won't hold my breathe. Explain to me how Lazard is athletically limited but Davante isn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, Norm said: Lazard is a victim of being a UDFA that nobody ever hyped coming out. Ironically, he tested fairly similarly to Treylon Burks. Except Lazard was 2" taller and jumped 5" higher. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, CWood21 said: Ironically, he tested fairly similarly to Treylon Burks. Except Lazard was 2" taller and jumped 5" higher. But he is limited athletically....at least people suggest Edited March 20, 2022 by squire12 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted March 20, 2022 Author Share Posted March 20, 2022 Lazard is 88th percentile in ht/wt adjust speed.....yet lacks athleticism 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossibleCabbage Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, squire12 said: Lazard is 88th percentile in ht/wt adjust speed.....yet lacks athleticism He's kind of a one speed player, which is the issue with him. Not that he can't make it work and hasn't, but ideally you wish a guy had another gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, PossibleCabbage said: He's kind of a one speed player, which is the issue with him. Not that he can't make it work and hasn't, but ideally you wish a guy had another gear. He has a faster 10 split and a faster flying 20 than Davante. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mazrimiv Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, hitnhope said: I think, like often happens, we are over rating our own. I don't think Lazard is anywhere near the kind of player some of you seem to. If we get 50 /600 we should feel fortunate. I am not a huge Lazard fan by any stretch, but I don't get how anyone could see 50/600 as his ceiling. Lazard was grossly underutilized in 2021 and came out of the season at 40/513. Something like 60/800 seems like Lazard's floor if he's seeing 6-8 targets per game. In the final 6 games of 2021 when Lazard actually started seeing regular targets (~6 per game), he posted 35/303/5. Lazard's best statistical game as a pro was a game Adams missed in 2020, so suggesting his success is heavily dependent on Adams also seems off. EDIT: My mistake. The rec count was 23 (not 35) the last six weeks of 2021. 35 was the target count. I don't think Lazard is a stud WR by a long shot, and I'd always want to upgrade the position if he's taking WR2 snaps. That being said, labeling him as "just a guy who can block" while listing 50/600 as his ceiling is selling him more than a little short. Edited March 20, 2022 by Mazrimiv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzPackfan Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 (edited) On 3/19/2022 at 7:27 AM, craig said: Oz, and Squire or many other cap experts: *IF* the Packers were to hypothetically trade Jordan Love, would that basically be a cap-insignificant transaction? Using Spotrac numbers, I see a $3.4 cap hit to keep him, but he's still got $3.3 of his $6.6 signing bonus left? So basically if the Packers wanted to trade him, and they liked the return, clearing cap would be zero motivation, any trade would be motivated solely by the value you could get in return; but neither would a trade reduce their cap space either? (https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/jordan-love-47621/) Sorry late getting back to this. Unless we are getting a premium draft pick there is no benefit to trading Jordan Love this year. Any pre June 1st trade would cost us 731k in cap space (the 94k we save on Love - the 825k for the replacement player in the top 51) Any post June 1 trade would save us 910k (the 1.735m we save on Love - the 825k for the replacement player in the top 51) Based on that I don't think we trade unless we can get a 2nd rounder or at worst package Love with a day 3 pick to get a 2nd rounder (i.e. pick 140 and Love for a 2nd rounder) Edited March 20, 2022 by OzPackfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les Punting Posted March 20, 2022 Share Posted March 20, 2022 2 hours ago, beekay414 said: On 60 targets, Lazard put up 40/513/8. There's no reason to not believe that if you up his target share, he's going to produce. Produce like a WR2? I think there's reason to doubt he'll produce proportionally with significantly more opportunities. Cobb was more productive per target, would he have gone off for 70/1000/12 on 100 targets? I doubt it. Targets/gm is mostly a conscious decision by the play-caller, based on the perceived value of targeting that player relative to the other options. Lazard has received ~4 targets/gm for three straight years under MLF. Adams' unusually high target share says more about Lazard/MVS than anything else. If MLF thought he could get comparable efficiency by spreading the ball around more, he'd do it and happily reap the benefits of that balance. Instead, he's fed Adams ~45% of the WR targets, exactly 10/gm, three years running. Even when MVS missed a stretch of games this year, Lazard still got his customary 4 targets/gm. With GB likely to draft an elite prospect and sign a quality free agent, Lazard will be right back to vying with Jones and Tonyan as the 3rd receiving option, to the tune of ~4 targets/gm. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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