Deshaun Watson is a Cleveland Brown

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

6 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

Yeah, I get the similarities. Hard work. Have to listen to a disciplinarian. A lot of rules.

Where it differs, and why it is disrespectful to those who actually went through it, they can just take their ball and go home. Chose another way of living. Simply, they are free to do what they want. 

So in other words, they aren't remotely the same. One is a choice and one isn't. 

The whole being bought and sold, children taken from you, raped and beaten, etc are the slight differences for me.

It’s nuanced, but it’s there.

[MWil23]

Goodell publicly said “No less than one year”.

LOL

Boys you did this to yourselves. Call the 49ers about Jimmy G and bring some Vaseline.

[Powertower]

56 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Goodell publicly said “No less than one year”.

LOL

Boys you did this to yourselves. Call the 49ers about Jimmy G and bring some Vaseline.

I’m saying they push for 2 yrs.  

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 hour ago, MWil23 said:

Goodell publicly said “No less than one year”.

LOL

Boys you did this to yourselves. Call the 49ers about Jimmy G and bring some Vaseline.

He also looks like an *** recommending a punishment 3x the length of the one the arbiter he agreed to.

Go to arbitration or just play king of all football and announce the suspension, but this is weak tbh. “We’re just gonna appeal until we find someone who agrees with us or I’ll just suspend him myself” is not how this should work imo. 

[Thomas5737]

10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

He also looks like an *** recommending a punishment 3x the length of the one the arbiter he agreed to.

Go to arbitration or just play king of all football and announce the suspension, but this is weak tbh. “We’re just gonna appeal until we find someone who agrees with us or I’ll just suspend him myself” is not how this should work imo. 

Well there was a flaw in their system. The judge said she used the same punishment that was handed down previously (although with a couple dozen less accusations) and gave him the same suspension.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Well there was a flaw in their system. The judge said she used the same punishment that was handed down previously (although with a couple dozen less accusations) and gave him the same suspension.

Her rationale was that this is the largest sentence ever handed down without criminal charges and to impose a significantly more severe punishment without prior notice would be unfair.

Right or wrong it’s whatever, but there is some logic there.

[Thomas5737]

10 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Her rationale was that this is the largest sentence ever handed down without criminal charges and to impose a significantly more severe punishment without prior notice would be unfair.

Right or wrong it’s whatever, but there is some logic there.

Equal to Ben's one sexual assault suspension. (it was reduced to 4 games after appeal I think).

Watson had 2 or 3 sexual assaults claims and 20 some sexual misconduct claims.

Her rationale didn't make a lot of sense. If she gave him 6 games per sexual assault claim and then added whatever for each sexual misconduct claim then it would have made more sense.

Then again, they only reviewed 4 cases and I don't know if any were sexual assault so the whole thing was just a mess. Sloppy NFL. Sloppy Browns.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Equal to Ben's one sexual assault suspension. (it was reduced to 4 games after appeal I think).

Watson had 2 or 3 sexual assaults claims and 20 some sexual misconduct claims.

Her rationale didn't make a lot of sense. If she gave him 6 games per sexual assault claim and then added whatever for each sexual misconduct claim then it would have made more sense.

They clearly weren’t looking at this as different instances, but rather one big pattern of poor behavior.

Just now, Thomas5737 said:

Then again, they only reviewed 4 cases and I don't know if any were sexual assault so the whole thing was just a mess. Sloppy NFL. Sloppy Browns.

Yeah, sloppy all around, no argument there.

 

[Thomas5737]

5 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

They clearly weren’t looking at this as different instances, but rather one big pattern of poor behavior.

That would be an odd way to look at it. If it were one claim I don't know if he would have faced any punishment by the NFL. He certainly wouldn't have the NFL wanting to suspend him at least one year. So the number would have to have significance, it seems.

[mrpazzo]

47 minutes ago, Thomas5737 said:

If it were one claim I don't know if he would have faced any punishment by the NFL.

Maybe not.  The guy who received 3 games in a prior incident was warned before the incident that precipitated the 3 game suspension.  Judge Robinson used this case as the baseline precedent for non-violent sexual misconduct and doubled it.  

6 games is the standard punishment for domestic violence or gendered violence.  "Only 2 players have been suspended for 8 games, one for multiple incidents of domestic violence, and the second for the assault of multiple victims. [emphasis added]. A single player has been suspended for 10 games, for multiple incidents of domestic violence for which the player pled guilty to battery." from Judge Robinson's opinion. That player has the most severe punishment currently.  This is why she felt the NFL was changing the collectively bargained punishment standard without notice.  17 games with necessity of reinstatement to the league with no notice brings into question Due Process/Notice.  Employers have to provide notice of punishment in collectively bargained labor agreements. 

I highlighted the multiple victim case because it shows Watson isn't the first with multiple victims which is of course an important aspect to this case.

[Thomas5737]

Why was Vick suspended 2 seasons? If numbers aren't a factor in Watson's case why were they in Vick's?

Josh Gordon had 6 instances of drug use, he got a couple years worth of suspension.

Zeke got 6 games for for DV but was never charged.

Terrell Pryor got 5 games for trading memorabilia for tattoos in college. Imagine if he did that 25 times.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Why was Vick suspended 2 seasons? If numbers aren't a factor in Watson's case why were they in Vick's?

he was indicted for a felony, agreed to a plea and served jail time.

apples to oranges

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Josh Gordon had 6 instances of drug use, he got a couple years worth of suspension.

multiple instances, sure, but repeat infractions after punishment.  Not the same thing.

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Zeke got 6 games for for DV but was never charged.

Accusations of physical violence being the key issue here I believe.  The arbiter referenced the lack of physical violence as one of her reasons for the suspension length.

1 minute ago, Thomas5737 said:

Terrell Pryor got 5 games for trading memorabilia for tattoos in college. Imagine if he did that 25 times.

This suspension was not well received either. This was Goodell doing what he wanted for no real reason tbh. 
 

"This smacks of a calculated effort to manipulate our eligibility rules in a way that undermines the integrity of, and public confidence in, those rules," Goodell said in his decision.

https://www.nfl.com/news/goodell-pryor-manipulated-eligibility-rules-suspension-upheld-09000d5d822b4f16

[NateDawg]

I’m not on Team Deshaun here and never have been but the NFL stance here is super weak and it’s clear they’re looking to just find someone who agrees with them. 

[AkronsWitness]

1 hour ago, mrpazzo said:

Maybe not.  The guy who received 3 games in a prior incident was warned before the incident that precipitated the 3 game suspension.  Judge Robinson used this case as the baseline precedent for non-violent sexual misconduct and doubled it.  

6 games is the standard punishment for domestic violence or gendered violence.  "Only 2 players have been suspended for 8 games, one for multiple incidents of domestic violence, and the second for the assault of multiple victims. [emphasis added]. A single player has been suspended for 10 games, for multiple incidents of domestic violence for which the player pled guilty to battery." from Judge Robinson's opinion. That player has the most severe punishment currently.  This is why she felt the NFL was changing the collectively bargained punishment standard without notice.  17 games with necessity of reinstatement to the league with no notice brings into question Due Process/Notice.  Employers have to provide notice of punishment in collectively bargained labor agreements. 

I highlighted the multiple victim case because it shows Watson isn't the first with multiple victims which is of course an important aspect to this case.

It does seem like a wild jump to go from 10 games for physical assault, multiple times and pled guilty in court all the way to 17+ games indefinitely for a lot of accusations of non violent sexual misconduct with no guilty verdict and it thrown out of two different grand jury's.

Not saying its right or wrong, just saying that compared to the same 'precedent' Sue Robinson kept stating--the NFL is trying to punish Watson twice as hard as the hardest they have ever punished a player. And there has been a LOT of players who have done some pretty deplorable things.

Edited August 10, 2022 by AkronsWitness

[Thomas5737]

15 minutes ago, NateDawg said:

I’m not on Team Deshaun here and never have been but the NFL stance here is super weak and it’s clear they’re looking to just find someone who agrees with them. 

I don't really even know why they do (or would) want to lose a star player longer than they had to. I understand playing to certain groups but I think they are probably played to as much as is worth the effort. Eventually you are only keeping football fans around, the vague interest in the NFL may draw some views temporarily but they will get bored if they don't like football.

The NFL punishment system is and has been a wreck a long time. That is bad press in itself.

I think common sense should be used and in the Watson case that wouldn't be good for Browns fans but most of these suspensions could be figured out in 5 minutes after the evidence is brought forward.

You punched a guy in a fight that was mutual and no weapons or buddies were used... you get a fine for the first offense.

DUI or drug charge (unless it is a minor marijuana possession) you get 30 days in NFL jail (4 games) for first offense.

DV... I'm fine with 6 games for first offense if you are more likely than not guilty. It's something that should be on a players (all of our) mind when you get angry at a domestic partner.

Rape... if convicted or found guilty in civil (or you pay for damages) 10 years

 

Sexual misconduct or harassment. 2 games for 1st offense. Each additional carries more.

Sexual assault (by this definition: Sexual assault is defined as causing another individual to be subjected to sexual contact without consent. Under New York Penal Code §(3), “sexual contact” consists of any contact with the sexual or other intimate parts of a person with the objective of sexual gratification.) 4-6 games for first offense depending on the severity of the incident.

 

That's a minute worth of work that could be done more thoroughly by someone smarter than me to keep most offenses in the books as far as punishment.

There will always be gray areas that will strike up debate but you could cover the vast majority of cases in the vast majority of instances. Now if you have 25 sexual misconduct/assault cases you're probably done for life so serial offenders would be out of the league but it would be fine, the league can live without that very small minority of players who fall under that category.