Jump to content

Ward officially a bust?

Humble_Beast

By Humble_Beast
in Las Vegas Raiders

Recommended Posts

raidr4life

raidr4life

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Totally agree.  In the other thread I was especially referring to misses in rounds 2-4.  Since 2015 in rounds 2-4 we've drafted Mario Edwards, Clive Walford, Jon Feliciano, Jihad Ward, Shilique Calhoun, Connor Cook, Obi Melifonwu, Eddie Vanderdoes, and David Sharpe.  I'll give this year a pass because they're rookies.  But from the remaining, MEJ is the only one worth a damn so far.  Walford has had moments, and maybe has potential, but didn't show enough of it to ward off a signing like Jared Cook.  Feli is a utility OL back up, which is nice I guess.  Meanwhile 2016 all look like candidates to be cut next preseason.  Brutal.  Need better than that.  It isn't to say some of these guys have no talent, but the fit with our coaching and existing roster is a component of draft picks as well.

I partially think a real legit DC can get this unit turned around. I think there could be some hidden talent, but as you said this coaching staff is not cultivating it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
big_palooka

big_palooka

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, holyghost said:

Rehashing Vanderdoes, I watched him today. The guy is looking nothing short of awful. On skates defending the run, running in sand rushing the passer. His stats do not deceive, he is not good. If Ward wasn't inactive weekly I'd safely state he is both the worst run defender and poorest pass rusher of all our defensive linemen right now. Worse run defender than the disastrous Autry and worse pass rusher than the ineffective Ellis. Aside from Calhoun of course who doesn't belong in the NFL at all. Man our defense sucks. Talent and coaching, it's both.

Flip side, I though Hester was doing some nice things today.

IMO... it's time to get a real DC in here. One who can actually coach players up. This is the most feckless unit I've seen in years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Humble_Beast

Humble_Beast

Posted
  • Author
Posted
12 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Totally agree.  In the other thread I was especially referring to misses in rounds 2-4.  Since 2015 in rounds 2-4 we've drafted Mario Edwards, Clive Walford, Jon Feliciano, Jihad Ward, Shilique Calhoun, Connor Cook, Obi Melifonwu, Eddie Vanderdoes, and David Sharpe.  I'll give this year a pass because they're rookies.  But from the remaining, MEJ is the only one worth a damn so far.  Walford has had moments, and maybe has potential, but didn't show enough of it to ward off a signing like Jared Cook.  Feli is a utility OL back up, which is nice I guess.  Meanwhile 2016 all look like candidates to be cut next preseason.  Brutal.  Need better than that.  It isn't to say some of these guys have no talent, but the fit with our coaching and existing roster is a component of draft picks as well.

Would be nice if half of them were worth a dam instead of just 1. Hopefully a coaching change will fix the issues 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SilverNBlackFan

SilverNBlackFan

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Baggabonez said:

So if Jon Condo was drafted Top 5, he wouldn't be overdrafted to you?

Overdrafted, sure. But he would still be considered a bust because of where he was drafted. A guy like Robert Gallery I could maybe make an exception for, because he was at least an average maybe above average guard for a few years.

DHB, however, has never been a good receiver in this league. While his longevity is to be applauded, he has been a fringe roster guy for years if we're being honest. He's averaged a little over 20 yards per game in his career...

And let's not act like DHB was some terrible prospect that nobody had any business drafting before the 5th round. Al Davis certainly jumped the gun drafting him that high, but he was likely going to go round 1 that year anyways. Iirc, Ravens were targeting him late in that draft. 6'2 with 4.3 speed and solid college production...yea someone was going to take that chance. Sucks it had to be us.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Baggabonez

Baggabonez

Posted
Posted
26 minutes ago, SilverNBlackFan said:

Overdrafted, sure. But he would still be considered a bust because of where he was drafted. A guy like Robert Gallery I could maybe make an exception for, because he was at least an average maybe above average guard for a few years.

DHB, however, has never been a good receiver in this league. While his longevity is to be applauded, he has been a fringe roster guy for years if we're being honest. He's averaged a little over 20 yards per game in his career...

And let's not act like DHB was some terrible prospect that nobody had any business drafting before the 5th round. Al Davis certainly jumped the gun drafting him that high, but he was likely going to go round 1 that year anyways. Iirc, Ravens were targeting him late in that draft. 6'2 with 4.3 speed and solid college production...yea someone was going to take that chance. Sucks it had to be us.

Ok. Now I understand. it's a matter of perspective. Overdrafted does not mean bust. Can't be both. Condo is a specialization player just like Lee is a blocking TE specialist. The first round is supposed to be reserved for complete players. No one would draft either Top 5. Similarly, DHB is a limited player. He can't catch his entire catch radius. I believe he had his best season running a ton of curls and he was a very good run blocking WR. He's serviceable if you ask him to do what he's good at. The consensus of DHB was that he was a 2nd rounder. Had he been drafted in the 2nd everyone would be satisfied with him as a serviceable WR2 (i.e Jerry Porter). That suggests to me overdrafted. Conversely, JaMarcus would have even been a bust, imo, even as a 5th rounder because he failed to develop at BASIC QB fundamentals. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Darbsk

Darbsk

Posted
Posted
On 20/11/2017 at 10:48 AM, big_palooka said:

Flip side, I though Hester was doing some nice things today.

IMO... it's time to get a real DC in here. One who can actually coach players up. This is the most feckless unit I've seen in years.

People don't use the word feckless enough :D

I also think we're in need of a real cerebral DC that can put these guys in their best position to succeed. I really didn't like the Ward selection last year but even then I don't think we can call him a bust after only a season and a half. Eddie Vanderdoes I was really optimistic about and to be fair he hasn't lived up to my expectations yet but it's still very early for him too. We have a large number of young and raw players on the DL - even Autry, Latham and even MEJ are raw to some extent. It's so important we have the right guys in place to develop these young players as we have invested heavily in them - that's not to say we should keep beating a dead horse due to draft status if they clearly are not going to make it. I'd also be looking to add a veteran presence over the off-season to help their development. The right veteran beside them and a great DC would make a huge difference IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Silver&Black88

Silver&Black88

Posted
Posted
38 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Ward either:

1.A bad pick because he was taken at a spot where he didn't deserve to go

2.A bust because he had the talent to go where he was taken, but hasn't performed up to expectations

3. Gone to a place that he doesn't fit into their system and/or does not put him in position to succeed

 

I think its a combination of everything

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Rolni

Rolni

Posted
Posted
On 2017. 11. 21. at 5:52 PM, Darbsk said:

People don't use the word feckless enough :D

I also think we're in need of a real cerebral DC that can put these guys in their best position to succeed. I really didn't like the Ward selection last year but even then I don't think we can call him a bust after only a season and a half. Eddie Vanderdoes I was really optimistic about and to be fair he hasn't lived up to my expectations yet but it's still very early for him too. We have a large number of young and raw players on the DL - even Autry, Latham and even MEJ are raw to some extent. It's so important we have the right guys in place to develop these young players as we have invested heavily in them - that's not to say we should keep beating a dead horse due to draft status if they clearly are not going to make it. I'd also be looking to add a veteran presence over the off-season to help their development. The right veteran beside them and a great DC would make a huge difference IMO.

I just can't see a quality DC coming here to work under Jack Del Rio...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Darbsk

Darbsk

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, Rolni said:
  On 21/11/2017 at 4:52 PM, Darbsk said:

People don't use the word feckless enough :D

I also think we're in need of a real cerebral DC that can put these guys in their best position to succeed. I really didn't like the Ward selection last year but even then I don't think we can call him a bust after only a season and a half. Eddie Vanderdoes I was really optimistic about and to be fair he hasn't lived up to my expectations yet but it's still very early for him too. We have a large number of young and raw players on the DL - even Autry, Latham and even MEJ are raw to some extent. It's so important we have the right guys in place to develop these young players as we have invested heavily in them - that's not to say we should keep beating a dead horse due to draft status if they clearly are not going to make it. I'd also be looking to add a veteran presence over the off-season to help their development. The right veteran beside them and a great DC would make a huge difference IMO.

33 minutes ago, Rolni said:

I just can't see a quality DC coming here to work under Jack Del Rio...

 

Unfortunately you may be right. None of us really know how much meddling Del Rio does in the defensive side, it's safe to say having been a DC himself he's probably not completely hands off and it would be a shame as I genuinely feel JDR really, really wants to succeed as Raiders head coach. I'd love for a real schemer to be given the role and given free reign as even though we don't have a stacked defensive roster we're not the sum of our parts right now. Great coaches and co-ordinators can make units play above themselves.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
big_palooka

big_palooka

Posted
Posted

Just my opinion, if I had to guess this offseason is going to go down with McKenzie/Davis stepping in and basically retaining JDR however investing in quality coordinators and 'demanding' to a point that he lets his coaches coach. 

I fully expect Reggie to be involved in getting a guy to coach up the defense knowing this thing is unraveling fast.

However... I would respect the heck out of Davis if he said look, thanks but no thanks. I need a winner in here to get this team where I want it to be and send JDR and his people packing. IMO, that guy is Gruden if he actually wanted back in because Davis is enamored with him. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing


×
×
  • Create New...