2018 Draftable QB Discussion

[NudeTayne]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

@NudeTayne you're the worst...
 

I love you too(, Man).

[NateDawg]

On 2/13/2018 at 10:03 PM, bruceb said:

Nope.

Boom or bust.

NFL career leader in INTs...by a lot.

Gunslinger.

Not my cup of tea.

 

Most people would take a Favre career. Super Bowl winner and HOFer. Frustrating at times but obviously the great outweighs all that as a whole. He’s good by me so long as I never get any picture messages from him.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

5 hours ago, NateDawg said:

Most people would take a Favre career. Super Bowl winner and HOFer. Frustrating at times but obviously the great outweighs all that as a whole. He’s good by me so long as I never get any picture messages from him.

“Picture message” is a funny way of phrasing that to me lol. 

I just picture some old guy named Sal who lives in Boca Raton and who wears socks with sandals screaming to his wife to “Hurry up and get over here, the grandkids just sent a picture message!”.

[Aztec Hammer]

I've been guilty of it too recently but I'm surprised at just how little discussion there's been about picking Rosen since he had that interview about "being a lower pick at the right team".

He's a superb prospect and in my opinion, one of the easiest and safest QB projections in a long time. We all know how hard it's been for the Browns to get one that can even play competently.

I love Darnold and think he's the perfect fit for us but Rosen is no joke. Apart from having a tendency to stare down receivers and a slightly overrated pocket presence, he's got it all. Even those things that you can nitpick as flaws, you get the sense he will improve with time.

[Aztec Hammer]

Actually, injuries are a real issue too. Forgot about that aspect. That might help explain why he's not getting a ton of love in the AFC North. Alongside his entitled comments too, of course.

[CWood21]

On 2/13/2018 at 8:31 PM, BleedTheClock said:

So if Baker Mayfield turns out to be Brett Favre but Sam Darnold is Peyton Manning, you won't watch the Browns? That sucks.

It's possible for both to be very good.

I'm sure it wasn't the intent but a Peyton Manning comparison for Sam Darnold is pretty bad.  He's closer to Eli Manning if you want to compare him to a Manning.

[MWil23]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I'm sure it wasn't the intent but a Peyton Manning comparison for Sam Darnold is pretty bad.  He's closer to Eli Manning if you want to compare him to a Manning.

[CWood21]

On 2/13/2018 at 5:30 PM, BleedTheClock said:

He's not better than Josh Allen.

Of course not.  He's too raw as a passer that he makes Allen look like a polished passer.  You have to evaluate Lamar Jackson the passer.  Not Lamar Jackson the athlete, and that's where it gets grey.  He's not going to be as explosive in the NFL as he was in college.

[CWood21]

3 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Not sure where you're going with that...Darnold isn't this elite QB prospect, and he's got enough issues that he's far enough away from completion to even be compared to Peyton.

[MWil23]

7 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Not sure where you're going with that...Darnold isn't this elite QB prospect

LOL

Ok. We'll agree to disagree. 

Maybe we should hear from the certainly unbiased Oklahoma Sooner fan what he thinks an honest assessment of Baker Mayfield is. I'm fascinated. 

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

LOL

Ok. We'll agree to disagree. 

Maybe we should hear from the certainly unbiased Oklahoma Sooner fan what he thinks an honest assessment of Baker Mayfield is. I'm fascinated. 

I mean, if he played for some other college would we be fondling over him?  Probably not.  He's got more issues than you care to admit.  He regressed from last season, and his turnover issues are well documented.  I've thrown out a Matt Ryan comparison before, and I still like that one.

As for Baker Mayfield, I try not to evaluate Oklahoma players.  I think it's harder to properly evaluate players of whom you're a fan of.  That being said, I've got serious concerns about whether or not he's a product of Lincoln Riley.  But he's tremendously talented.  If he were 6'4", we'd be talking about a clear cut top 5 prospect.  He doesn't play your traditional football, and the Brett Favre comparison seems actually fairly decent.  He's accurate, for the most part doesn't try to outplay his offensive system, and you can't really quantify that "IT" factor he has.  He's produced everytime he was asked to, and that chip on his shoulder can't be discounted.  Personally, I wouldn't take him 1st overall or 4th, but he's not getting past Denver at 5 or New York at 6.  There's too much risk for me there.  But I tend to be very conservative with my QBs.  I've got Josh Rosen as my top ranked QB, which ironically I think is the one QB that the Browns aren't going to seriously consider.  I think it comes down to Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, and Josh Allen.

[MWil23]

25 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, if he played for some other college would we be fondling over him?  Probably not.  He's got more issues than you care to admit.  He regressed from last season, and his turnover issues are well documented.  

You know who else turned it over a lot in college?

*Matt Ryan

*Jameis Winston

*Peyton Manning

*Big Ben

*DeShaun Watson

25 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I've thrown out a Matt Ryan comparison before, and I still like that one.

He's got twice the arm Matt Ryan does. Josh Rosen's playing style is much more comparable to Matt Ryan.

[Aztec Hammer]

21 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, if he played for some other college would we be fondling over him?  Probably not.  He's got more issues than you care to admit.  He regressed from last season, and his turnover issues are well documented.  I've thrown out a Matt Ryan comparison before, and I still like that one.

I've got serious concerns about whether or not he's a product of Lincoln Riley.  But he's tremendously talented.  If he were 6'4", we'd be talking about a clear cut top 5 prospect.

Eli Manning and Matt Ryan are terrible comps for Darnold. The fumbles are more of an issue to me than the interceptions. Having watched every game of his two seasons, and almost all of them live, I think the 'interception issue' is an overblown narrative on Darnold and there is context to the picks. The first season he was pretty good considering it was his first year starting. The 9 picks generally were a result of learning the game at the college level and were more inexperience at reading the game than boneheaded stuff.

As for your comment on his regression this season. I've posted this before questioning those who claim this. Box scores suggest it but it's really quite arguable. This season, he had a tough time with interceptions early on in the season and was pressing a bit, but what people don't mention is that outside of the picks he was displaying arguably better all-round talent than the year before. And winning games. Some of the early picks were tipped by the receiver and some give and take nature like that. But he was having some difficulties adjusting to the woeful o-line, young receivers and simpleton play calling. As the year went on he corrected those issues quite well and fell into stretches of clean play, but the INT number was already high enough at this point to stick around in the narrative.

Never mind he threw less INTs in his two years than Deshaun Watson, Matt Ryan, Jimmy Garoppolo, Eli Manning, Peyton Manning and many more top guys.

The fumbles were more of an issue to me because I noticed that some tended to happen when the pocket collapsed and it would great ripped out before he could get the ball off. There isn't much any QB can do when defenders have clean swipes at their arm but coupled with Sam's Russell Wilson-like propensity to drop the ball downwards at the start of his release, I wondered if that might cause some issues in adding fractions of time for defenders at the next level. We see that with Winston getting stripped in the pros a lot. One thing I would say about the fumble numbers though is they are a bit skewed. They count a swing pass to Ronald Jones that he flopped trying to catch. That goes in the books as a Darnold fumble. There was a game against Utah (where he won with an awesome comeback and displayed high level skills) that was a disaster in fumble terms because his ball handling was awful, particularly with problems losing the ball at the mesh point with Jones in an option handoff. They go down as fumbles but they're not really concerning in a QB sense.

As for Baker Mayfield, I lean more towards the Lincoln Riley system turning every game into a glorified 7 on 7. Why would being 6'4 make him a guaranteed Top 5 pick? Would it have made him capable of staying in the pocket and completing passes in the second half against Georgia? That is what worries me most about Mayfield and I've yet to see a retort to my questions about his second half that do not involve calling him a "winner", or reverting to comments about his competitive fire and what not.

It was the most NFL like half of football he has played in his career, and outside of the TD where he escaped the pocket, it was a disaster. I can't shake that from my mind. 

I'd honestly be willing to change my mind on Mayfield if somebody could pull up that second half when Georgia put the clamps on the run game and gadget stuff, and dared him to play an orthodox, pocket style. If someone could analyse that second half and explain his performance.

[Mastercheddaar]

I recently watched on Youtube videos on the top four QBs. My knee jerk reactions to them were the following:

Josh Rosen - Easily the most Pro ready QB in the draft. Great pocket presence, however, he did make some ??? throws that would have been picks in the NFL. Should be our pick at #1 but he already said, he doesn't want to be here in some many words. Never pick a player that doesn't NOT want to play for you. 

Sam Darnold - Again, good size and pocket presence yet he adds the dimension of throwing on the run just like Big Ben does. His footwork and throwing motion need a bit of fine tuning. He has big play explosive abilities. Also note he had no o-line. In games against good defenses his left tackle become a caution, floor is wet sign. 

Josh Allen - He looked a lot like Darnold. I really didn't watch much of him but after watching his video. I wouldn't be upset if we drafted him. He seems like he has a good football IQ. 

Baker Mayfield - He looks small. Makes good throws, scambles and such but I cannot get past how small he looked compared to the other three. Also note he has O Brown at LT blocking for him and a way better offense surrounding him as well. If you put Rosen, Allen, or Darnold on OU I'm sure they would have won it all. 

Conclusion - Don't draft Baker Mayfield. If we go Barkley and then Allen at #4 I would not be upset. 

That is all

mastercheddaar

[FGK]

37 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

He's got twice the arm Matt Ryan does. Josh Rosen's playing style is much more comparable to Matt Ryan.

Do you remember Matt Ryan in college? Dude was a freaking gunslinger. Not Rosen-ish (elite 10-20 accuracy, meh deep ball) at all.