2023 draft prospects and college football talk.

[Slappy Mc]

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Trading out of the first means you don’t have the 5th year option to use on a player that most likely will become a good starter for you if you’re taking them in round 1. That’s the main reason I wouldn’t trade out of the 1st round, losing that flexibility with a contract is a big deal.

Personally, I don’t think we have a good enough 3rd corner/nickel guy. We need to get a 3rd guy with some top talent to go along with Juice & Fuller, especially in todays pass happy NFL. You really need to have 4 CBs you can trust to put out their most games. Right now, we don’t have that.

Fixing the OL is definitely the top need, but if a CB is the best player available when we pick in round 1, it makes sense to get that guy & then come back in round 2 and take an RT prospect or a C/G prospect and then do the same with our 3rd round comp pick or 4th round pick while making one of those a LB to develop behind Holcomb & Jamin.

Honestly I would be pretty upset if we went the route you are talking about. If we end up with a CB and a RT with our first two picks, i would consider that a failure. 

The interior of our line was a huge weakness last year. We need all 3 interior positions before CB or either tackle. LB is more of a need than CB or Tackle IMO as well. Let's not forget they invested a 2nd round pick in Cosmi. Same staff that drafted him is still here, probably not going to give up on him. 

There are some really good interior o-line players in the early rounds and it would be foolish (imo) if we don't fix our biggest weakness. 

[turtle28]

15 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

Honestly I would be pretty upset if we went the route you are talking about. If we end up with a CB and a RT with our first two picks, i would consider that a failure. 

The interior of our line was a huge weakness last year. We need all 3 interior positions before CB or either tackle. LB is more of a need than CB or Tackle IMO as well. Let's not forget they invested a 2nd round pick in Cosmi. Same staff that drafted him is still here, probably not going to give up on him. 

There are some really good interior o-line players in the early rounds and it would be foolish (imo) if we don't fix our biggest weakness. 

That’s not exactly what I said. I said we’d take a CB in round 1 if there wasn’t a OL worth taking. 
 

In round 2 I’d take a OT or a C or a G prospect. I didn’t say id just take a RT. 
 

They’re also moving Cosmi to RG, so presumably that fixes the RG issues, although I agree that’s not a definite so they need to draft a guard relatively high, re-sign Wes S or sign someone else to compete w/ Cosmi at RG.

I don’t see how LB is more of a need than CB. If you re-sign Holcomb, we have our young starting LB back together for a 2nd year in a row as they gain more chemistry and grow together.

Again, this is a passing league & our 3rd corner spot is a major major problem on this team. Of course, we could also sign a FA upgrade there, but until we do that I think it makes most sense to upgrade that 3rd CB spot so that we don’t have the issues like we had the beginning of last year again. 
 

On top of that, Kendall Fuller isn’t getting a younger, so you have to think about his replacement coming down the line & get someone in house to groom as your future #1, at worst #2 CB.

Edited February 22, 2023 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

That’s not exactly what I said. I said we’d take a CB in round 1 if there wasn’t a OL worth taking. 

That's also not what you said. You said if CB was BPA that's where you go. I said if no interior o-line are available, you trade down. Under zero circumstances do i want a CB in round 1.

7 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

In round 2 I’d take a OT or a C or a G prospect. I didn’t say id just take a RT. 
 

They’re also loving Cosmi to RG, so presumably that fixes the RG issues, although I agree that’s not a definite so they need to draft a guard relatively high, re-sign Wes S or sign someone else to compete w/ Cosmi at RG.

You listed RT then OG/C. Again interior long before tackles. Only reason you draft an OT, IMO, is if they are going to play inside at G. Cosmi going to guard is most likely not going to be permanent since they still believe he will be an effective tackle still. 

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t see how LB is more of a need than CB. If you re-sign Holcomb, we have our young starting LB back together for a 2nd year in a row as they gain more chemistry and grow together.

Again, this is a passing league & our 3rd corner spot is a major major problem on this team. Of course, we could also sign a FA upgrade there, but until we do that I think it makes most sense to upgrade that 3rd CB spot so that we don’t have the issues like we had the beginning of last year again. 
 

On top of that, Kendall Fuller isn’t getting a younger, so you have to think about his replacement coming down the line & get someone in house to groom as your future #1, at worst #2 CB.

If you look back at the season as a whole, the LB play was far more detrimental than CB play in my opinion. Slot CB is a need (even though Danny Johnson played well down the stretch) but drafting a slot CB in the first round is not a winning strategy. 

We need a cover LB. TEs and RBs are destroying us each year. Kicking that down the road is not helpful. So yea LB is ahead of CB for me, but both of those are behind LG, RG, C and TE on my list of needs for the team. (Not adding QB to the needs because Howell)

[turtle28]

30 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

That's also not what you said. You said if CB was BPA that's where you go. I said if no interior o-line are available, you trade down. Under zero circumstances do i want a CB in round 1.

It’s essentially the same thing. I guess you can argue over semantics if you want, but we need an upgrade at 3rd CB & an upgrade at interior OL. So, I’d take the best player available of those positions. 
 

30 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

You listed RT then OG/C. Again interior long before tackles. Only reason you draft an OT, IMO, is if they are going to play inside at G. Cosmi going to guard is most likely not going to be permanent since they still believe he will be an effective tackle still. 

I didn’t mean RT then C/OG in that order necessarily. I was just listing the positions & trying to make it clear that I didn’t think we’d be cutting Leno and having whoever we drafted start at LT. If we draft an OT at some point - which I think we will - they’ll compete with Lucas to start on the right side.

I’ve heard from John Keim and other best reporters on the radio since the end of the season that the plan is to move Cosmi inside to RG. I think they’ve given up on him being the answer at RT. Now, maybe that’s just my opinion on the last sentence there, but it seems pretty clear if they’re telling reporters that they’re moving Cosmi to RG next year that they are giving up on him being a long term answer at RT.

30 minutes ago, Slappy Mc said:

If you look back at the season as a whole, the LB play was far more detrimental than CB play in my opinion. Slot CB is a need (even though Danny Johnson played well down the stretch) but drafting a slot CB in the first round is not a winning strategy. 

We need a cover LB. TEs and RBs are destroying us each year. Kicking that down the road is not helpful. So yea LB is ahead of CB for me, but both of those are behind LG, RG, C and TE on my list of needs for the team. (Not adding QB to the needs because Howell)

Yeah, the LB play was detrimental bc we missed Holcomb for the last 2 months of the season & the first two months of the season we still had McCain starting at FS & WJ3 was on our team which meant our overall coverage was poor.

We also missed Curl when he was injured in the beginning & end of the year. Curl is the guy who covers the TE most of the game. When he’s out you could tell, like vs San Fran when Curl missed the game & Kittle killed us.

To me, I don’t want to take another LB high in the draft - round 1 or 2 - after just taking Jamin in round 1 of the 2021 draft. We have to improve other areas too. We are in Buffalo nickel w/ Curl basically as our 3rd LB most of the game or a CB in there as the slot corner rather than having 3 LBs on the field.

Curl essentially is our coverage LB. 
 

The only way I’m drafting a LB high is if we can’t re-sign Holcomb & then we don’t get what I feel would be an upgrade at LB in the free agency. If that happens, then we have a major hole at LB & it becomes our #1 need IMO and I’d take Trenton Simpson in round 1 and not think twice about it.

As it stands right now I think they’ll re-sign Holcomb & then you have Holcomb as the MLB, Jamin as our OLB & Curl as the Buffalo nickel w/ McCain at SS & Forrest at FS, or maybe McCain at Buffalo nickel w/ Curl at SS. But some variation of that.

The idea that getting an upgrade at 3rd CB is not a huge need does boggle my mind though. We need to do something there. We can’t rely on Danny Johnson, Fields & Wildgoose to be our answer as the 3rd CB. 

Edited February 22, 2023 by turtle28

[Slappy Mc]

2 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

It’s essentially the same thing. I guess you can argue over semantics if you want, but we need an upgrade at 3rd CB & an upgrade at interior OL. So, I’d take the best player available of those positions. 

Ok.

3 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I think they’ve given up on him being the answer at RT. Now, maybe that’s just my opinion on the last sentence there, but it seems pretty clear if they’re telling reporters that they’re moving Cosmi to RG next year that they are giving up on him being a long term answer at RT.

Still would put LG and C higher on the priority list (assuming he plays RG) since we have Lucas that can start at RT. (I'll still argue that 4 of the 5 line positions could use upgrades (Leno can be upgraded too, but he was easily our best lineman))

5 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, the LB play was detrimental bc we missed Holcomb for the last 2 months of the season & the first two months of the season we still had McCain starting at FS & WJ3 was on our team which meant our overall coverage was poor.

We also missed Curl when he was injured in the beginning & end of the year. Curl is the guy who covers the TE most of the game. When he’s out you could tell, like vs San Fran when Curl missed the game & Kittle killed us.

To me, I don’t want to take another LB high in the draft - round 1 or 2 - after just taking Jamin in round 1 of the 2021 draft. We have to improve other areas too. We are in Buffalo nickel w/ Curl basically as our 3rd LB most of the game or a CB in there as the slot corner rather than having 3 LBs on the field.

Curl essentially is our coverage LB. 

I'll say 2 things on this.

#1 Cole Holcomb also looked pretty bad when he was playing. I don't think he was a natural fit for MLB and he underperformed IMO. 

#2 Curl is not a LB. He is a utility safety type than can play in the box. He also didn't perform super great in the "Buffalo Nickel" position. He is much better in zone rather than man IMO. I think having Forrest and Curl as the 2-high with a real LB would be more beneficial than keeping McCain at S and roving Curl around. 

Again LB and CB should not be in consideration for our 1st round pick IMO. We HAVE to address the oline.

[turtle28]

1 minute ago, Slappy Mc said:

I’ll say 2 things on this.

#1 Cole Holcomb also looked pretty bad when he was playing. I don't think he was a natural fit for MLB and he underperformed IMO. 

#2 Curl is not a LB. He is a utility safety type than can play in the box. He also didn't perform super great in the "Buffalo Nickel" position. He is much better in zone rather than man IMO. I think having Forrest and Curl as the 2-high with a real LB would be more beneficial than keeping McCain at S and roving Curl around. 

Again LB and CB should not be in consideration for our 1st round pick IMO. We HAVE to address the oline.

Yeah, Curl isn’t a LB but, we play 5 DBs like 70% of the game. What do you mean Curl didn’t perform well in the Buffalo Nickel position? Yes he did. He did well as an off ball box safety who would come up and make tackles & he’s good in coverage.

They’re not going to change up their defense & the way they have been playing it most of the last two years. I do agree that having Curl & Forrest in a 2 high safety look is best for our deep coverage. When you do that though, that opens up a hole. 
 

I do agree that they need to add another LB. It becomes a question if you can find this magical perfect coverage LB after round 1 & if that guy will be a better option of playing a 3rd safety.

I don’t know man, I do know this, if you’re not re-signing Holcomb then you’re certainly opening up a huge hole at LB. When you do that, you have to either sign a vet upgrade in March or you have to draft a LB relatively high bc you can’t rely on a mid round pick coming in and definitely being your starter at LB next to Jamin.
 

 

[Slappy Mc]

8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

Yeah, Curl isn’t a LB but, we play 5 DBs like 70% of the game. What do you mean Curl didn’t perform well in the Buffalo Nickel position? Yes he did. He did well as an off ball box safety who would come up and make tackles & he’s good in coverage.

Curl got beat in man coverage a lot playing in the Buffalo Nickel position. Be is fantastic in zone, but he shouldn't be following TEs and RBs either. We need LBs that do their jobs so our other players can do theirs. IMO both Forrest and Curl can play either S position, but they are better off the line of scrimmage in a read and react position. 

8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I do agree that having Curl & Forrest in a 2 high safety look is best for our deep coverage. When you do that though, that opens up a hole. 

This is the job of the LB core. Get better LBs and get the desired result.

8 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I do agree that they need to add another LB. It becomes a question if you can find this magical perfect coverage LB after round 1 & if that guy will be a better option of playing a 3rd safety.

They passed on trading for Roquan Smith, that was their best chance at a true MLB that excelled in coverage that was proven. Also acting like only 1st round LBs can be successful is silly. 

11 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

I don’t know man, I do know this, if you’re not re-signing Holcomb then you’re certainly opening up a huge hole at LB. When you do that, you have to either sign a vet upgrade in March or you have to draft a LB relatively high bc you can’t rely on a mid round pick coming in and definitely being your starter at LB next to Jamin.

I'm not opposed to re-signing Holcomb, but he shouldn't break the bank here. I think they need to sign a LB or 3 as well. 

Still those positional needs do not outweigh the offensive line needs. If there isn't a dramatic overhaul to the o-line, there won't actually be progress. 

[turtle28]

On 2/22/2023 at 5:02 PM, Slappy Mc said:

Still those positional needs do not outweigh the offensive line needs. If there isn't a dramatic overhaul to the o-line, there won't actually be progress. 

I agree but you don’t just take an offensive lineman to take one in round 1. I want OL too, it’s my desired selection with AT LEAST 2 of our first 4 picks if not 3 but, you can’t reach for someone & trading down and passing on a possible #1 CB w/in a year or 2 doesn’t make much sense to me plus, if you trade out of the 1st you lose the option of the 5th year for a player who’s good but you don’t want to give a long term deal too year, etc.
 

As for Roquan Smith, we would’ve had to trade a 1st round pick to get him bc of the Carson Wentz trade & not knowing if the pick we’d retain in this years draft was going to be a 2nd or 3rd that we’d have to give the Colts bc of the Wentz trade.

At the time Roquan Smith was traded, it was looking like our 2023 first round pick could be a top 10 pick. That’s a high pick to trade for a MLB who’d you also have to extend after you traded for him.
 

I guess we could’ve traded DaRon Payne for Roquan Smith straight up or whatever but, we’d still have to re-sign Smith.

If we had traded a 1st for Smith we’d be staring down having lost our 1st round pick & maybe not being able to re-sign Roquan Smith and DaRon Payne right now.

That doesn’t sound like a good situation to be in. 

Edited February 24, 2023 by turtle28

[RSkinGM]

Interesting QB prospect .T H 2.0

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/2/23/23609625/jake-haener-could-be-an-ideal-qb2-washington-commanders-nfl-draft-profiles

 

Edited February 23, 2023 by RSkinGM

[turtle28]

7 hours ago, RSkinGM said:

Interesting QB prospect .T H 2.0

https://www.hogshaven.com/2023/2/23/23609625/jake-haener-could-be-an-ideal-qb2-washington-commanders-nfl-draft-profiles

 

I don’t have a problem with it, but we need to sign a veteran whether that’s re-signing Heinicke to back up Howell, signing Mayfield, Jacoby Brisett, Andy Dalton, Bridgewater, Cooper Rush, Darnold, Keenum, Gardner Minshew, Mike White, Mason Rudolph or signing someone else even if it’s just Chase Daniel who knows the Reid/Bieniemy offensive system very well and could help groom Sam Howell as he develops into it and a late round QB we’d draft to develop.

Edited February 24, 2023 by turtle28

[ARTMONK HOF]

RT did pretty well against a Top 5 Pick. 

[turtle28]

2 hours ago, ARTMONK HOF said:

RT did pretty well against a Top 5 Pick. 

Hard not too like what I’m seeing there, I guess that’s why Wright is rising up the draft boards. As my mom’s side of the family says at their family reunions “if you ain’t Wright, you’re wrong!” 😂 

I’d still take Broderick Jones over Wright at 16, have Jones start at RT for a year & then have him flip to LT when Leno retires after this year or after 2024. Next draft we should draft another OT in the mid rounds who can develop for a year behind Leno & Jones & the can start at RT in 2025.

Edited February 24, 2023 by turtle28

[lavar703]

Well I just saw Doug Farrar’s mock draft and he has us taking Cam Smith and Henry Too’too in the first two rounds. His reasoning for the picks was that our defense was a hot mess last year. Sometimes, I’d like these sports writers to actually research topics. 

[turtle28]

1 hour ago, lavar703 said:

Well I just saw Doug Farrar’s mock draft and he has us taking Cam Smith and Henry Too’too in the first two rounds. His reasoning for the picks was that our defense was a hot mess last year. Sometimes, I’d like these sports writers to actually research topics. 

 

Only way we do that is if we sign Mike McGlinchey to start at RT & sign a good in their prime C/G in FA too. I guess if we did that & didn’t sign a FA CB then it’d make CB & ILB higher needs bc you had signed two starters on the right side in FA.

[ARTMONK HOF]