2023 NFL Draft Prospects

[HuskieBear]

17 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

 

This is a massive shock IMO.

i dont necessarily think so. I think that going into the season there were big expectations, but he hasn't exactly been lighting things up. maybe he thinks year 2 of brian kelly will lead to better things for him in the offense and he's thinking that'll be the difference between late 1 early 2nd and top 10-15 draft pick

[Bigbear72]

26 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

Youre falling into the same trap that many were this offseason. This overhaul isnt going to be complete in one or two offseasons. Its going to be incremental steps so we can build a sustainable foundation and then we hopefully wont be back down to this level for a very long time. Quick fixes help for a year or two, but you will have to keep bottoming out every few years.

We cleared the Cap in year one, we also identified that we have the QB to hitch our wagon to. We also took some shots on some guys in free agency and the draft, to varying degrees of success (call it the Pringle-Brisker spectrum). But we also identified a good chunk of guys who will make up the original core of a few units that will set the floor.

Next we need to add some very good, very solid free agents that we can expect to be part of that core that Im talking about. Also need to get a true barometer on the Weapons for fields, specifically Mooney and Claypool, but also another look at Kmet and Herbert (maybe they have made their mind up on those two.

 

You are correct saying that a trade down from the #2 pick is very disireable in our eyes, but its a two way street;

• What if we actually end up at 3, and both Young and Stroud go before us?
• Even if we end up at #2, What if Young is the only clear cut QB, and all the other QB needy teams see Stroud, Levis and Richardson as just different levels of preference?
• Or what if the only offer we really have is like from the Colts at pick 8/9 and all they are offering is their 3rd and next years 1st, is that enough?
• What if its the Commanders that barely miss the playoffs because Hinekie finally falls apart. Is it worth dropping to #17? Even if its for #48, '24 1st and a '25 1st?
• Or what if Carolina wants to come up from #5? Is #35 and #57 (QB tax) worth likely missing out on both Cater and Anderson for?

We cant just expect that the trade we want is there, its going to be weighing alot of options, and Poles is really going to have to work, if we even end up in the position we are talking about

Not falling into the trap at all. I was basically stating that it would take more than this off-season to build the team and basically not expect a turnaround next year solely based on the fact that we have so much cap space. That cap space will be spent over the course of several years. 

Also, of course we have to have a trade partner for the right price. But I think that Poles intentions will be to trade down to get additional picks and add a splash FA or two and build depth through FA.

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

But not many were ever looking at Boutte's numbers when it came to the Draft process, almost all are looking at his skills and potential.

He may not have JSN's "excuse" (feels way more like a guy just opting out but never wanting to admit that to anyone), but he also has Jayden Daniels, which is a much larger excuse for his numbers than any lingering injury would be.

Im saying that he was projected Top 10ish with the same numbers last year (actually better this year, but its not crazy different) so he was being ranked there on the skills and projections, not on his numbers. so whats a 4th year going to do different other than possibly expose him? He is the type that should kill workouts, might show well at the combine, and if he holds it together in interviews he should move right back up the board into the first round. 

I don’t disagree with any of that, and I have a lot of questions about his decision too (though he still has until 1/15 to change his mind). But, I think all the other guys at the top will also probably kill the draft process because they’re all freak athletes, and none of the others are coming off of seasons that underwhelmed to expectations the way Boutte is. Fair or not, that might matter come April. There’s gonna be a lot of splitting hairs at the top of this WR class IMO - I think the top 5-6 guys or so will all grade out really similarly. Boutte might be WR2/3 in that group, but might be WR6/7 too. Bottom to top of that range might be a draft slot difference if like 50 picks. Right or wrong, maybe Boutte thinks another year in college solidifies him at the top of that range. If anything, his staying suggests he didn’t get as high a recommendation as he thought he would.

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

But from what is being reported, hes going back to LSU? Thats what doesnt make all that much sense

FWIW, this came out 12/3/21 about Jayden Daniels returning to ASU. He then entered the transfer portal 2/17/22. Saying he’s staying now doesn’t necessarily mean he’s staying. You’d think since he’s presumably going back to improve his draft stock that he’ll evaluate where he might best do that in 2023 once draft declarations have happened, QB transfers have played out, etc. 

[AZBearsFan]

2 hours ago, StLunatic88 said:

Youre falling into the same trap that many were this offseason. This overhaul isnt going to be complete in one or two offseasons. Its going to be incremental steps so we can build a sustainable foundation and then we hopefully wont be back down to this level for a very long time. Quick fixes help for a year or two, but you will have to keep bottoming out every few years.

I think the one place where we can do a complete overhaul this offseason is along the lines. With our resources and draft capital there’s no reason at all we shouldn’t be able to solidify the OL with a real center and a RT, plus depth improvement, and to add 3 new starters on the DL either via FA or the top half of the draft.

We need upgrades at the skill positions too without question, and something will be done there too, but fixing the lines raises the floor for everything else IMO. 

[StLunatic88]

4 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think the one place where we can do a complete overhaul this offseason is along the lines. With our resources and draft capital there’s no reason at all we shouldn’t be able to solidify the OL with a real center and a RT, plus depth improvement, and to add 3 new starters on the DL either via FA or the top half of the draft.

We need upgrades at the skill positions too without question, and something will be done there too, but fixing the lines raises the floor for everything else IMO. 

Between Poles and Eberflus I would absolutely imagine that is where most of the effort will be spent.

I have my reservations on if we will really put a ton of resources into the OL, as I believe they like alot of what we have. Im not sure the right Center is out there to give big money to, but we will probably add one big FA to that group (Jenkins is the obvious fit). After that though, I bet its alot of later draft picks, and they take a shotgun approach to fixing it. (we have plenty of money so I still dont think we are cutting Whitehair just because)

But I think the fix of the DL will be top of the list. We have some very good talent in the secondary (could always use more), and the LB spot is mostly an afterthought other than THE Guy, but the DL is where all of this starts. The UT he wants, two starting DEs and a bunch of depth is all needed there

[AZBearsFan]

16 minutes ago, StLunatic88 said:

But I think the fix of the DL will be top of the list. We have some very good talent in the secondary (could always use more), and the LB spot is mostly an afterthought other than THE Guy, but the DL is where all of this starts. The UT he wants, two starting DEs and a bunch of depth is all needed there

I think so too. I’ll be genuinely shocked if we don’t make a big investment at DT in FA even if the plan is to draft Jalen Carter in R1. Going from what we have now to something like Da’Ron Payne and Carter up the middle with Justin Jones as our top reserve would be a coup. A glaring weakness becomes an immediate legitimate strength that should be as such for several years. 

[Madmike90]

16 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I think so too. I’ll be genuinely shocked if we don’t make a big investment at DT in FA even if the plan is to draft Jalen Carter in R1. Going from what we have now to something like Da’Ron Payne and Carter up the middle with Justin Jones as our top reserve would be a coup. A glaring weakness becomes an immediate legitimate strength that should be as such for several years. 

I would love to get Payne & Carter in the middle of the defence as your interior would be set for the next 6-8 years if they stay healthy...

That said you are looking at a lot of resources to get those two...probably $80 million and the 2nd/3rd overall pick...

And that is why this offseason is so fascinating because we could do that or do they want to spread those resources around more like signing Zach Allen to play UT and trading down for a Tyree Wilson at DE then using the additional money and picks to fill some holes on the OL & at WR?...

March is going to be a really interesting time for us & I suspect quickly take away the bad taste this year has left.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Madmike90

[beardown3231]

8 hours ago, RunningVaccs said:

What does this staff do well? Tell their guys to hustle? That's not exactly football-industry-disruptive there. 

For every dose of basic football competency above Nagy (BFCAN) there's a bunch of weird timeouts and personnel decisions that don't make sense.

I'm accepting that this team might be good when the talent gets better, but I'm just saying I see nothing special about the coaching. 

 

And my Mike McCarthy example wasn't too celebrate him, just pointing out that with a great QB and some good bounces a very average couch can win it all. I agree he sucks don't worry.

No no, look at my bolded point. You essentially said you don't think Anderson or Carter will be great players, so my question was why do you think that?

[AZBearsFan]

6 hours ago, Madmike90 said:

I would love to get Payne & Carter in the middle of the defence as your interior would be set for the next 6-8 years if they stay healthy...

That said you are looking at a lot of resources to get those two...probably $80 million and the 2nd/3rd overall pick...

And that is why this offseason is so fascinating because we could do that or do they want to spread those resources around more like signing Zach Allen to play UT and trading down for a Tyree Wilson at DE then using the additional money and picks to fill some holes on the OL & at WR?...

March is going to be a really interesting time for us & I suspect quickly take away the bad taste this year has left.

Agreed, but how many other positions does getting 2 studs at that position impact? Our DEs should get a bump from it. Our LBs should get a bump from it. And the secondary gets a bump from anything that puts added pressure on the QB.

[Sugashane]

36 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

Agreed, but how many other positions does getting 2 studs at that position impact? Our DEs should get a bump from it. Our LBs should get a bump from it. And the secondary gets a bump from anything that puts added pressure on the QB.

As long as the opposing QB has to spend a little extra time with the training staff I don't care what positions get cash thrown at them. Be it two stud DTs and average DEs or one DE and DT leading the rush, just hit the damn QB... frequently.  

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, Sugashane said:

As long as the opposing QB has to spend a little extra time with the training staff I don't care what positions get cash thrown at them. Be it two stud DTs and average DEs or one DE and DT leading the rush, just hit the damn QB... frequently.  

Da’Ron Payne is exactly what we need on the DL. I’m gonna be pissed when WSH figures out a way to keep him. 

[Madmike90]

9 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

Agreed, but how many other positions does getting 2 studs at that position impact? Our DEs should get a bump from it. Our LBs should get a bump from it. And the secondary gets a bump from anything that puts added pressure on the QB.

I agree with that as well…just wonder how Poles will view it and if he is ready to commit that sort of money in FA especially or does he go cheaper in FA at DL knowing he could get a really talented DL in the draft? Will be interesting to see it unfold…

On a side note to that looking at my big board right now the best 4 players in this draft IMO are all DL.

[AZBearsFan]

1 hour ago, Madmike90 said:

I agree with that as well…just wonder how Poles will view it and if he is ready to commit that sort of money in FA especially or does he go cheaper in FA at DL knowing he could get a really talented DL in the draft? Will be interesting to see it unfold…

On a side note to that looking at my big board right now the best 4 players in this draft IMO are all DL.

I have to think a lot of that will likely be dictated by where our draft pick ultimately falls. If we pick 2 the likelihood of a trade down seems significantly higher, but with that comes more uncertainty too about which DL we could get. I agree that the top of this draft has a bunch of really talented prospects. Right now I see all of Anderson, Carter, Murphy, Wilson and Bresee as having top 10 talent.

What do you all think about when we should trade down if we end up picking 2nd and choose to do so? Waiting until almost draft day could potentially lead to more value, but IMO ideally we should do it before FA if we can. Doing so would give us the best picture of where our options will be draft-wise before the FA market opens. It would also give us the most capital to swing a trade pre-draft should we see it as warranted. 

[Madmike90]

14 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I have to think a lot of that will likely be dictated by where our draft pick ultimately falls. If we pick 2 the likelihood of a trade down seems significantly higher, but with that comes more uncertainty too about which DL we could get. I agree that the top of this draft has a bunch of really talented prospects. Right now I see all of Anderson, Carter, Murphy, Wilson and Bresee as having top 10 talent.

What do you all think about when we should trade down if we end up picking 2nd and choose to do so? Waiting until almost draft day could potentially lead to more value, but IMO ideally we should do it before FA if we can. Doing so would give us the best picture of where our options will be draft-wise before the FA market opens. It would also give us the most capital to swing a trade pre-draft should we see it as warranted. 

I always think it is difficult to trade down before draft day itself for the simple fact of teams being concerned about what could happen in the down time these prospects have...we see it every year where someone does something stupid and impacts their draft stock...but at the same time most "draft day" trades are worked out well in advance...Pace had the trade with the Giants worked out days before so that if Fields hit #11 we would move...I could without doubt see something like that with teams around the league so we know what the top offer is for teams who are specifically targeting say Will Levis or if the Texans pull a shock and take a DL 1st overall then who is desperate to come up for Bryce Young?...

As I said before I am not so sure the Lions are going to want to take a QB that highly under Campbell...I think he believes games can be won in other ways and won't force it to over draft someone like C.J Stroud...the Seahawks will be an interesting one because as good as Geno has been history says it won't last...the two teams most likely to want to come up right now IMO are the Colts who don't have a lot of resources but do have some players like Pittman, Kelly, Smith, Buckner, Stewart, Leonard, Moore all of who could help us at positions of need and have obvious ties here & could speed up this rebuild massively...and the team to really watch IMO is the Panthers who just need something to cling onto at this point...they have a 1st, 2x 2nd, 3rd, 2x 4th so a little more draft capital and have a few really good young players who again would fit needs like Moore, Morton, Brown & Burns.

[Bigbear72]

28 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said:

I have to think a lot of that will likely be dictated by where our draft pick ultimately falls. If we pick 2 the likelihood of a trade down seems significantly higher, but with that comes more uncertainty too about which DL we could get. I agree that the top of this draft has a bunch of really talented prospects. Right now I see all of Anderson, Carter, Murphy, Wilson and Bresee as having top 10 talent.

What do you all think about when we should trade down if we end up picking 2nd and choose to do so? Waiting until almost draft day could potentially lead to more value, but IMO ideally we should do it before FA if we can. Doing so would give us the best picture of where our options will be draft-wise before the FA market opens. It would also give us the most capital to swing a trade pre-draft should we see it as warranted. 

I kinda think the opposite. I would wait until after FA so that you have a better idea of what you need to target and if trading down still gives you value at one of your areas of deficiency. If we do this prior to FA and then don't hit on any of our FA targets that complicates manners (and less face it, this is Chicago and we are bound to be disappointment when one or more of our targets doesn't sign here).