MrBobGray Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 4:59 PM, squire12 said: what incentive does Rodgers have to play within the system? He got a mega contract that seems to be in control of the full situation in GB. Gutekunst, MLF are pretty much at his mercy given the contract. I mean, you'd think it would be better performance right? If his way was working, that's one thing, but you'd hope that it's become clear to him something needs to change. I don't disagree that they have zero leverage over him, but if there's on thing about Rodgers it's that he cares deeply about how he's seen and his legacy, and ending his career like this theoretically is enough. Problem is getting him to accept the solution is to take less control, not more, and I agree that there you're in a real pickle. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 minute ago, MrBobGray said: I mean, you'd think it would be better performance right? If his way was working, that's one thing, but you'd hope that it's become clear to him something needs to change. I don't disagree that they have zero leverage over him, but if there's on thing about Rodgers it's that he cares deeply about how he's seen and his legacy, and ending his career like this theoretically is enough. Problem is getting him to accept the solution is to take less control, not more, and I agree that there you're in a real pickle. I'm not trying to read too much into what AR thinks all the time, but I'm sure in his mind he thinks it's the fault of the OL and receivers when the way he doesn't play well so he isn't thinking it hurts his legacy. "Not my fault they gave me all this pups and bums to throw to," that kind of thing? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 On 10/17/2022 at 3:17 PM, Norm said: Great stuff like usual Fire MLF, hire MBG Hell no I've had to wrangle enough narcissists in my life, and that was bad enough without them being world famous celebrities who are gods to the entire city they live in. I think that may quite literally be my hell? Like assuming we get em personalized and not just off an assembly line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBobGray Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Norm said: I'm not trying to read too much into what AR thinks all the time, but I'm sure in his mind he thinks it's the fault of the OL and receivers when the way he doesn't play well so he isn't thinking it hurts his legacy. "Not my fault they gave me all this pups and bums to throw to," that kind of thing? Absolutely agree, but poor performance is poor performance and the stat sheet doesn't hold context. I would suspect he may feel like it isn't his fault so not his problem, but the allure of performing at a level that has people worshipping you will always hold sway over Aaron. The trick is convincing him your way will get him back to that level. Problem there is that "your way", whatever it is, needs to work immediately. Like, drive one of game one post-implementation. If he feels even for a second that it isn't working, he's going to straight to hero ball because he will not abide the chance that someone else will be responsible for tarnishing his legacy. The thing with narcissistic personalities is that the Label is everything. Being seen in a negative light is poison to him, but being seen in a negative light because he did what you told him to do, and it didn't work? Now you're poison to him. It doesn't matter why the thing didn't work, doesn't matter if it's his own failures that brought it down, if the result is people see him as being less than he wants to be seen he's going to turn on you. The failure to have a big playoff performance in what he knew was Tae's last season with him almost certainly eroded huge amounts of trust in the FO and coaching staff; it's not a coincidence he signed a contract he clearly strong-armed the FO into less than two months later. Armchair psycho-analysis is less than useless, I know this, but I can't help myself because it's honestly a fascinating situation. MLF's career arc with Rodgers is following McCarthy's to a T; strong start, big success with the system with Aaron bought in, few playoff failures later, we're full hero ball the hell, with your schemes. 'You let me down, now I'm doing it my way.' Edited October 19, 2022 by MrBobGray 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packerstk7 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, MrBobGray said: Absolutely agree, but poor performance is poor performance and the stat sheet doesn't hold context. I would suspect he may feel like it isn't his fault so not his problem, but the allure of performing at a level that has people worshipping you will always hold sway over Aaron. The trick is convincing him your way will get him back to that level. Problem there is that "your way", whatever it is, needs to work immediately. Like, drive one of game one post-implementation. If he feels even for a second that it isn't working, he's going to straight to hero ball because he will not abide the chance that someone else will be responsible for tarnishing his legacy. The thing with narcissistic personalities is that the Label is everything. Being seen in a negative light is poison to him, but being seen in a negative light because he did what you told him to do, and it didn't work? Now you're poison to him. It doesn't matter why the thing didn't work, doesn't matter if it's his own failures that brought it down, if the result is people see him as being less than he wants to be seen he's going to turn on you. The failure to have a big playoff performance in what he knew was Tae's last season with him almost certainly eroded huge amounts of trust in the FO and coaching staff; it's not a coincidence he signed a contract he clearly strong-armed the FO into less than two months later. Armchair psycho-analysis is less than useless, I know this, but I can't help myself because it's honestly a fascinating situation. MLF's career arc with Rodgers is following McCarthy's to a T; strong start, big success with the system with Aaron bought in, few playoff failures later, we're full hero ball the hell, with your schemes. 'You let me down, now I'm doing it my way.' That’s very astute. This trajectory is very similar to MM although more compressed it seems. This feels more like his last 2 years in charge. What’s also interesting to me is that like in MM offense we seem to be very reliant on WR winning one on one match ups, and none of them are good enough to do that on a regular basis. Edited October 20, 2022 by packerstk7 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransientTexan Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 10 hours ago, Old Guy said: Hold on here, nobody said he was a bust. The original post was comparing Gute's first 4 drafts vs. Thompson's last 5. Apparently, they had to go 5 vs. 4 to make their point. Not to mention it's way too early to judge Gute's last two draft classes in any meaningful way. My point then and now is he's a JAG. He never been anything but a JAG. He's the epitome of a JAG. He's the starter you always look to replace because he's not somebody offenses have to gameplan against. In fact, they look at him as somebody to exploit. Which they often did, especially in the passing game. No, I had to go 5 vs 4 BECAUSE Gute had the same draft capital in those 4 drafts that is EQUIVALENT to those 5 of TT’s. Not all drafts have equivalent draft capital. The fact that this point goes sailing over your head is embarrassing. & it’s dishonest to pretend I included Gute’s 2022 class in the analysis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) Im convinced Tank for Bryce Young Not intentionally of course Trade Rodgers to the Colts for a 2nd Edited October 20, 2022 by Malfatron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Malfatron said: Im convinced Tank for Bryce Young Not intentionally of course LOL .. the way the season has gone so far this year, they'd screw that up too. Also: not a fan of tanking and playing not to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 (edited) 2 minutes ago, coachbuns said: LOL .. the way the season has gone so far this year, they'd screw that up too. Also: not a fan of tanking and playing not to win. I agree Play hard to win and try to win...but lose Also, trade rodgers for a 2nd to colts They are the only franchise dumb enough and desperate Jordan love can be traded for a 6th somewhere Edited October 20, 2022 by Malfatron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gypsy1027 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 I think it's fair to argue we ought to give Gutekunst a pass on judging his last two years of drafting, as much as I would like to argue. But that said, it's not too early to look at how (IMHO) his 2018 draft class petered out. Yes, we did get Jaire in Round One, some extra picks and MVS in Round Five. But for the rest?--Yikes! Josh Jackson at 2? Oren Burks at 3? J'Mon Moore a 4? Cole Madison at 5? J K Scott at 5? Equanimeous St. Brown at 6...eh. James Looney, Hunter Bradley and Kendall Donerson at the end? And it seemed like we hung on to these guys for the longest time. I believe 2018 is still haunting us. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 The only thing worse than the rodgers deal is the wilson deal 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 11 hours ago, Malfatron said: The only thing worse than the rodgers deal is the wilson deal Much worse, Denver game up a boatload of picks/players for Wilson plus giving him an even bigger boatload of money. That being said, Rodgers better pick his play up or those saying last year to trade him for picks and get rid of salary may have indeed been correct. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 1:59 AM, Packer_ESP said: Exactly, the whole Martinez conversation started when talking draft prowess. If you think Martinez was a bad / bust round 4 pick, you're nuts. It's guys like Martinez that help you win titles. Division and otherwise. Lower picks, starters on low end deals. He was a great pick. Now...with the deal he signed post GB? That's how you lose. Those guys are great on rookie deals, but once you need to pay them real money, that's when you start losing. He was a great GB pick, a fine player and a great player to let leave. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skibrett15 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 17 hours ago, Malfatron said: The only thing worse than the rodgers deal is the wilson deal Well, consider that we could have gotten the Wilson Haul? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 31 minutes ago, skibrett15 said: Well, consider that we could have gotten the Wilson Haul? Would have been nice, but then people would complain that we didn't draft well enough with that haul. But that being said...I've watched enough Bronco games this year. Jerry Jeudy has to be as similar a player as there is to Davante Adams. No point to this statement other than I really like that guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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