Zach Wilson

[ET80]

47 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Wilson in college was bizarre. He made such horrendous decisions with the football, but pulled off miracle after miracle with pinpoint throws and raw arm talent. It didn’t seem sustainable, but he made it work in college…where I wouldn’t have thought it would be sustainable either.

Weird prospect that the Jets gambled with. It was worth the home-run swing I suppose, but clearly they struck out. I also didn’t know he was a tool off the field. And apparently that gunslinger all-balls approach is gone. He looks charisma-less now. 

Honestly, it was only one year - 2020, an odd year in itself. No crowds or crowd noise, entire position units declared ineligible with contact tracing, rescheduled games due to Covid, etc.

A few QBs looked really good then - Wilson, Spencer Rattler, DJ Uialeguiei - but as we went back to normal situations, these guys started to flop. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

[DawgX]

Yeah, I viewed Wilson as a guy you take a gamble on in round two, not two overall. I'm not remotely surprised he's been a bust so far. Always said the Jets should have taken Fields instead of Wilson.

[Trentwannabe]

The petty part of me loves how Wilson has completely blown up after listing to my older brother, a Jets fan, tell me how great Sam Darnold would be and how Allen would easily bust. Then tell me how Wilson has all the tools and better accuracy than Allen and that Fields was just another running QB and they won’t regret missing out on Lawrence. 
 

The non petty side of me also loves this.

[ramssuperbowl99]

24 minutes ago, ET80 said:

Honestly, it was only one year - 2020, an odd year in itself. No crowds or crowd noise, entire position units declared ineligible with contact tracing, rescheduled games due to Covid, etc.

A few QBs looked really good then - Wilson, Spencer Rattler, DJ Uialeguiei - but as we went back to normal situations, these guys started to flop. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.

I get that the class was a little odd behind Lawrence, but the draftniks and teams just straight up got it wrong. Every QB in that class has more or less turned into who we thought they were, or it's trending that way.

Lawrence is coming good. The 9ers gambled on someone with no track record, who's never been healthy. The Jets gambled on a big arm'd QB who sucks at football, turns out he still sucks at football. The Bears took a great athlete and a gamer QB with an imperfect arm, and the second they figured out how to use him they started winning ugly games.

 

Teams have no one to look at besides themselves.

Edited December 23, 2022 by ramssuperbowl99

[iknowcool]

6 hours ago, diamondbull424 said:

I guess. But most of what put him there was absolute projection. People felt he had a strong arm and solid mobility.

I remembered watching Wilson play against Coast Carolina and knowing he was overrated. He looked like a worse version of Oklahoma Baker Mayfield, which isn’t a slight to Baker the prospect, but in a class that had Fields and Lance behind Lawrence; Wilson shouldn’t have been picked higher than the late 1st IMO.

I don't think we can hold it against Wilson for being a "projection" but not Lance.  Lance started one season at NDSU, which isn't on a different level than BYU when it comes to competition.  He was just as much, if not more, of a projection than Wilson.  Especially considering the last time we saw him before the draft, he looked dreadful on the field.  And that was his only game of 2020. 

However if you feel like Wilson was at best the 4th prospect, fair enough (although Mac Jones was the last QB taken among the 5 and still went top 15, so no way Wilson would have ever dropped to the bottom of the 1st).  Everyone sees players differently.  However the consensus among most people at the time was Wilson was #2 or at worst #3.  Almost every site I go back and read has him 2/3.  Even casually going through the 2021 QB thread on this site, you will find most people had him 2 or 3.  

 

[iknowcool]

24 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I get that the class was a little odd behind Lawrence, but the draftniks and teams just straight up got it wrong. Every QB in that class has more or less turned into who we thought they were, or it's trending that way.

Lawrence is coming good. The 9ers gambled on someone with no track record, who's never been healthy. The Jets gambled on a big arm'd QB who sucks at football, turns out he still sucks at football. The Bears took a great athlete and a gamer QB with an imperfect arm, and the second they figured out how to use him they started winning ugly games.

Teams have no one to look at besides themselves.

You aren't always going to get it right though.  Should teams pass on QBs unless they are 100% certain on them?  That seems like playing it too safe.  I'm not suggesting teams should start reaching for scrubs like Kellen Mond, but most people agreed Wilson was shoe-in first round pick.  I don't see a problem with the Jets taking him in the top 5 if they felt he was the #2 QB.... just like most people did.

And who is "we"?  I don't mean that in a condescending way, I'm just not sure who you are referring to, given most people on this site who post in the draft forum had Wilson in the top 2 as well.  There is no way the majority of people before the draft were predicting Wilson would be written off as a bust less than 2 full seasons in.  Credit to you if you saw it coming though.

Edited December 23, 2022 by iknowcool

[ramssuperbowl99]

9 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

You aren't always going to get it right though.  Should teams pass on QBs unless they are 100% certain on them?  That seems like playing it too safe. 

Sure, every prospect is a gamble. They're people and they change.

But it's the why things went wrong that should be a concern. If Zach Wilson didn't turn out because of injuries or because of some mental thing that they couldn't know beforehand, that's part of the deal. But when a prospect busts based on exactly the known weakness that was clear, that's improper weighting/evaluation.

9 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

And who is "we"?  I don't mean that in a condescending way, I'm just not sure who you are referring to, given most people on this site who post in the draft forum had Wilson in the top 2 as well.  There is no way the majority of people before the draft were predicting Wilson to become an all-time bust.  Credit to you if you saw it coming though.

I would say the "we" here would be college football fans. There was a dichotomy on Wilson in particular between CFB fans and people who watch CFB to scout for NFL players. The latter went nuts over the arm strength, athleticism and whatnot, the former were the people who were low on him.

I'm not going to say I saw him failing out of the league in 2 years, but I never got the hype at all.

EDIT: And I love project types. My all time draft miss is Greg Robinson. Whoopsies.

The draft reporters who I really, really have no mercy for are the ones who tried to come up with BS red flags against Justin Fields as a way to prop Zach Wilson up. No one ever questioned Justin Fields work ethic and love for football until after the CFB season, but then every 2:00 PM ESPN QB analyst was saying they were hearing stuff about him between the ears, when Fields had spent the entire offseason petitioning to play through COVID, and a significant part of the season playing through a rib injury. That stuff was not only wrong in hindsight, it was wrong at the time.

Edited December 23, 2022 by ramssuperbowl99

[RUGmen]

1 hour ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Wilson in college was bizarre. He made such horrendous decisions with the football, but pulled off miracle after miracle with pinpoint throws and raw arm talent. It didn’t seem sustainable, but he made it work in college…where I wouldn’t have thought it would be sustainable either.

Weird prospect that the Jets gambled with. It was worth the home-run swing I suppose, but clearly they struck out. I also didn’t know he was a tool off the field. And apparently that gunslinger all-balls approach is gone. He looks charisma-less now. 

He was a trick type play QB in college. He made some insane plays that caught the attention of people, but in reality, he did not control an offense well or move the chains consistently. He is clearly struggling in the NFL with reading defenses and improving his mechanics. He honestly looks like one of the most confused QBs I ever seen when drops back.

He’s not NFL material. Not back up material either. I fully expect him to get some sort of shot with a new team likely Practice Squad and maybe float around a bit like that similar to Rosen now. 

[NJerseypaint]

10 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

Sure, every prospect is a gamble. They're people and they change.

But it's the why things went wrong that should be a concern. If Zach Wilson didn't turn out because of injuries or because of some mental thing that they couldn't know beforehand, that's part of the deal. But when a prospect busts based on exactly the known weakness that was clear, that's improper weighting/evaluation.

I would say the "we" here would be college football fans. There was a dichotomy on Wilson in particular between CFB fans and people who watch CFB to scout for NFL players. The latter went nuts over the arm strength, athleticism and whatnot, the former were the people who were low on him.

I'm not going to say I saw him failing out of the league in 2 years, but I never got the hype at all.

EDIT: And I love project types. My all time draft miss is Greg Robinson. Whoopsies.

The draft reporters who I really, really have no mercy for are the ones who tried to come up with BS red flags against Justin Fields as a way to prop Zach Wilson up. No one ever questioned Justin Fields work ethic and love for football until after the CFB season, but then every 2:00 PM ESPN QB analyst was saying they were hearing stuff about him between the ears, when Fields had spent the entire offseason petitioning to play through COVID, and a significant part of the season playing through a rib injury. That stuff was not only wrong in hindsight, it was wrong at the time.

He's not even showing his strengths anymore. I didn't want him on the Jets, but he had a few throws in his first games that had me believing his talent could be worth the growing pains. I mean, some of his throws were phenom type throws, but now - I have no clue where that power went. He's floating them deep and just giving DBs jump balls mid field.

It's like he's so far in his own head that he can't tell when to rocket one or when to add touch and is doing them at absolutely the wrong times. Same with his scrambling. He had a play last night where he could have easily avoided the sack by just sliding to his left, but he stood tall and went down instead. I get trusting your OL but like, he's doing it to a fault now.

He is at least done for this year. Maybe he needs a new QB coach, or a sport psychologist, or Jesus - I don't know. But the kid is a mental wreck.

[bucksavage1]

I was surprised that Wilson was launched to #2 QB in 2020. Coming from the college playoffs, I thought it was obvious that Fields was the best player. I understand the Lawerence was the best prospect but Fields was right behind. I’d admit didn’t foresee the struggles for Wilson. 

 

[bucksavage1]

2 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

He's not even showing his strengths anymore. I didn't want him on the Jets, but he had a few throws in his first games that had me believing his talent could be worth the growing pains. I mean, some of his throws were phenom type throws, but now - I have no clue where that power went. He's floating them deep and just giving DBs jump balls mid field.

It's like he's so far in his own head that he can't tell when to rocket one or when to add touch and is doing them at absolutely the wrong times. Same with his scrambling. He had a play last night where he could have easily avoided the sack by just sliding to his left, but he stood tall and went down instead. I get trusting your OL but like, he's doing it to a fault now.

He is at least done for this year. Maybe he needs a new QB coach, or a sport psychologist, or Jesus - I don't know. But the kid is a mental wreck.

He had a huge TD run last year. He’s definitely experiencing the yips. There were throws he made in college and even last year that were great. There's no confidence anymore

[ramssuperbowl99]

10 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

He's not even showing his strengths anymore. I didn't want him on the Jets, but he had a few throws in his first games that had me believing his talent could be worth the growing pains. I mean, some of his throws were phenom type throws, but now - I have no clue where that power went. He's floating them deep and just giving DBs jump balls mid field.

It's like he's so far in his own head that he can't tell when to rocket one or when to add touch and is doing them at absolutely the wrong times. Same with his scrambling. He had a play last night where he could have easily avoided the sack by just sliding to his left, but he stood tall and went down instead. I get trusting your OL but like, he's doing it to a fault now.

He is at least done for this year. Maybe he needs a new QB coach, or a sport psychologist, or Jesus - I don't know. But the kid is a mental wreck.

I feel for Jets fans here.

Not only is taking a QB that high and having them bust a drag, but the rest of the team looks pretty damn solid and watching a good-but-no-QB team as a fan sucks.

And yeah you're describing what I'm trying to say when I say the guy isn't good at football. He may legitimately be the worst game manager I have ever seen, and he's got this ability to get simple decisions wrong seemingly every single time, even the coin flip ones. A psychologist wouldn't hurt, but he needs an NFL G-league or something that slows it down for him a bit.

[General Tso]

My dude called it

[ninjapirate]

1 hour ago, ramssuperbowl99 said:

I get that the class was a little odd behind Lawrence, but the draftniks and teams just straight up got it wrong. Every QB in that class has more or less turned into who we thought they were, or it's trending that way.

Lawrence is coming good. The 9ers gambled on someone with no track record, who's never been healthy. The Jets gambled on a big arm'd QB who sucks at football, turns out he still sucks at football. The Bears took a great athlete and a gamer QB with an imperfect arm, and the second they figured out how to use him they started winning ugly games.

 

Teams have no one to look at besides themselves.

I still remember when Zach Wilson made that one throw in shorts that the internet was raving about and then every other draft eligible QB did the same thing because it really wasn't all that super impressive people just wanted Zach Wilson to be impressive for some reason.

[GangGreen420]

I will never understand the Zach Wilson hype. From the first time I was forced to watch him play in his bowl game against UCF to all the pre draft analysis until now.