BayRaider Posted March 25, 2023 Share Posted March 25, 2023 I prefer my outside corners with height. Porter is 6’2” and runs a 4.4. Ideal completely for the outside. Witherspoon is 5’11”. Still think Witherspoon is a solid prospect and deserving of the Top 15 but I feel this forum takes production too far into account sometimes. Porter was still a phenomenal college corner and has the size and speed to back it up in the NFL. It’s not all about college production. Size matters. Speed matters. Athleticism matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DUKE Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Ozzy said: No team could do it, would have to have two picks in the top 15 if not top 10 and no team has that. Detroit could, they'd just have to trade up from 18. Not that they will, but they technically could Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 9 hours ago, THE DUKE said: Detroit could, they'd just have to trade up from 18. Not that they will, but they technically could True it could happen but no way it does, they just signed Sutton and Moseley and already have Jacobs and Okudah. Not to mention just got Gardner-Johnson at safety and Walker coming back from injury. For one team to trade up to get two corners, not very likely, only reason teams do that most of the time is to get a QB and usually trade two 1st rounders or other picks to do it. 11 hours ago, BayRaider said: I prefer my outside corners with height. Porter is 6’2” and runs a 4.4. Ideal completely for the outside. Witherspoon is 5’11”. Still think Witherspoon is a solid prospect and deserving of the Top 15 but I feel this forum takes production too far into account sometimes. Porter was still a phenomenal college corner and has the size and speed to back it up in the NFL. It’s not all about college production. Size matters. Speed matters. Athleticism matters. Yeah Jaire Alexander has really struggled in the league because of his height. Tall corners are great but Porter's production this past year was suspect. At times one barely even knew he was out there, did not make a huge impact the games I saw him. Helps he is Joey Porter's kid, and that athletic ability helps as well but Witherspoon consistently made way more plays as a tackler and in coverage. On true fundamental play and footwork, Gonzalez and Witherspoon blow Porter Jr out of the water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOSteelers56 Posted March 26, 2023 Author Share Posted March 26, 2023 Forgetting a CB is out there is generally a good thing. It usually means that you’re forgetting about the WR he’s covering too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 (edited) 9 hours ago, Ozzy said: True it could happen but no way it does, they just signed Sutton and Moseley and already have Jacobs and Okudah. Not to mention just got Gardner-Johnson at safety and Walker coming back from injury. For one team to trade up to get two corners, not very likely, only reason teams do that most of the time is to get a QB and usually trade two 1st rounders or other picks to do it. Yeah Jaire Alexander has really struggled in the league because of his height. Tall corners are great but Porter's production this past year was suspect. At times one barely even knew he was out there, did not make a huge impact the games I saw him. Helps he is Joey Porter's kid, and that athletic ability helps as well but Witherspoon consistently made way more plays as a tackler and in coverage. On true fundamental play and footwork, Gonzalez and Witherspoon blow Porter Jr out of the water. Why do people always name a handful of names like it’s the norm…? Porter has a way higher chance of success with his height, speed, and athleticism which all blow Witherspoon out of the water. Edited March 26, 2023 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 24 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Why do people always name a handful of names like it’s the norm…? Porter has a way higher chance of success with his height, speed, and athleticism which all blow Witherspoon out of the water. Witherspoon has not worked out, but I would be surprised if he is this bad athlete. If so why does he react to the ball quicker than Porter Jr, why does he tackle more aggressively than Porter Jr, because he is a worse athlete? Probably the opposite of that. Jonathan Jones is 5-10, Denzel Ward is 5-11, Donte Jackson is 5-10, Dane Jackson is 5-11, Kendall Fuller is 5-11 etc... A lot of very successful starting corners are not six feet tall yet are still extremely good pros. And all of them are outside corners, in a league with a ton of quick fast receivers having someone who can change directions and run with them is not a bad idea. Unless Witherspoon works out awful, he is easily the better CB compared to Porter Jr. But since he is 5-11 1/2 and not 6-1 like he was listed in college he all of a sudden sucks? Nah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Witherspoon has not worked out, but I would be surprised if he is this bad athlete. If so why does he react to the ball quicker than Porter Jr, why does he tackle more aggressively than Porter Jr, because he is a worse athlete? Probably the opposite of that. Jonathan Jones is 5-10, Denzel Ward is 5-11, Donte Jackson is 5-10, Dane Jackson is 5-11, Kendall Fuller is 5-11 etc... A lot of very successful starting corners are not six feet tall yet are still extremely good pros. And all of them are outside corners, in a league with a ton of quick fast receivers having someone who can change directions and run with them is not a bad idea. Unless Witherspoon works out awful, he is easily the better CB compared to Porter Jr. But since he is 5-11 1/2 and not 6-1 like he was listed in college he all of a sudden sucks? Nah Who said he sucks??? Such a gross over exaggeration because you are getting sensitive. He is still my #3 CB. Also you proved my point with “just a handful of names”, an extremely underwhelming list at that… once you get to the NFL level you need size, speed, and athleticism. I actually think Porter will be drafted before Witherspoon on draft day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 Good coverage by Porter in these short clips but he is also very grabby in most of them and some would be flagged in the NFL. He will not be able to do that hand fighting in the NFL. And want to talk ball skills, dude has 1 INT in a four year college football career as a tall and athletic CB? Not sure how that happens unless he does not have great ball skills or ball awareness. He got his hands on the football at least this year which is good but again very grabby at times to make up for being a little out of position. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jebrick Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 11 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Good coverage by Porter in these short clips but he is also very grabby in most of them and some would be flagged in the NFL. He will not be able to do that hand fighting in the NFL. And want to talk ball skills, dude has 1 INT in a four year college football career as a tall and athletic CB? Not sure how that happens unless he does not have great ball skills or ball awareness. He got his hands on the football at least this year which is good but again very grabby at times to make up for being a little out of position. In his defense ( and I am not a big fan) he has 11 passes defended. vs 13 for Witherspoon. So he is around the ball I do like Witherspoon much better. Forbes has the best ball skills in this class by far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 15 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Who said he sucks??? Such a gross over exaggeration because you are getting sensitive. He is still my #3 CB. Also you proved my point with “just a handful of names”, an extremely underwhelming list at that… once you get to the NFL level you need size, speed, and athleticism. I actually think Porter will be drafted before Witherspoon on draft day. I did not dig all that deeply mind you, and if you claim any corner that is not tall is possibly not great because "size matters".... Lattimore is barely 6-0 and same with Marlon Humphrey and Darius Slay three of the best corners in the NFL. So since Witherspoon is 5-11 1/2 he will be crap because he does not have height? Byron Murphy and Asante Samuel are two corners under 6-0 who do quite well also. Trent McDuffie and Roger McCreary two very promising corners from last years draft also under 6-0. Not to mention in that same draft Coby Bryant, Jack Jones, Marcus Jones, Decobie Durant and Damarri Mathis but they might all be more slot guys but we will see. Either way to disregard a corner because of height but totally ignore ones grabby play and inability to sink their hips and change directions, you go ahead and do that. Maybe Porter will be better but on tape he has some issues that will get flagged at the next level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Tso Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 30 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Who said he sucks??? Such a gross over exaggeration because you are getting sensitive. He is still my #3 CB. Also you proved my point with “just a handful of names”, an extremely underwhelming list at that… once you get to the NFL level you need size, speed, and athleticism. I actually think Porter will be drafted before Witherspoon on draft day. Denzel Ward is a Pro Bowler. I'm not saying it's common, but shorter CBs can be good in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 56 minutes ago, General Tso said: Denzel Ward is a Pro Bowler. I'm not saying it's common, but shorter CBs can be good in the NFL. Yes but FF has a tendency to find just a very short list of names and be like “GOTCHA!” When in reality, all percentages and metrics point otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzy Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 6 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Yes but FF has a tendency to find just a very short list of names and be like “GOTCHA!” When in reality, all percentages and metrics point otherwise. Percentages and metrics? Dude watch the games maybe, to disregard shorter corners over 1/2" or just for the "F" of it, good luck with that buddy. I just looked this up, the average height of a NFL corner is under 6-0 tall by the way. https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-an-nfl-cornerback/#:~:text=The average height of an,6'0″ tall). 1 hour ago, General Tso said: Denzel Ward is a Pro Bowler. I'm not saying it's common, but shorter CBs can be good in the NFL. Alexander is a Pro Bowler and All Pro but totally disregard that one. And I say again Lattimore, Slay and Humphrey three of the best corners in the NFL are all barely 6-0 tall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 36 minutes ago, Ozzy said: Percentages and metrics? Dude watch the games maybe, to disregard shorter corners over 1/2" or just for the "F" of it, good luck with that buddy. I just looked this up, the average height of a NFL corner is under 6-0 tall by the way. https://hortonbarbell.com/average-height-and-weight-of-an-nfl-cornerback/#:~:text=The average height of an,6'0″ tall). Alexander is a Pro Bowler and All Pro but totally disregard that one. And I say again Lattimore, Slay and Humphrey three of the best corners in the NFL are all barely 6-0 tall. To further your point, Slay actually measured under 6’ at the combine. 71.88” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleBlueDon Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Wonder what some big boards would look like combining the top guys in this class with last year's in Stingley, Sauce, McDuffie, Booth, Elam etc.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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