QB Talk Once Again.... sigh

[Packerraymond]

4 minutes ago, xrade said:

More than Gute.  Has Gute ever drafted a good player?  Given where we were and where we are now it is night and day.  A lot of that falls on JD.  His first two drafts may not be anything to write home about which is about what most teams do.  But the real reason many of us Jet fans like JD is because he recognizes what needs to be done and tries to address that.  Take the OL for example.  He is still working on that mainly because injuries devastated us and former All-Pros decided to suck when they joined.  But he knows it is an issue and is attacking it.  Gute ignores the WR position even though his HoF QB is crying for a top WR.  So, please, do not throw stones on this particular topic.

Jaire Alexander, Rashan Gary, Elgton Jenkins are all elite. Eric Stokes, AJ Dillon, MVS, Josh Myers, Zach Tom, Quay Walker, Christian Watson, Romeo Doubs, Jon Runyan Jr can all be classified as at least league average starters if not more.

Then there's Jordan Love. If he hits, that is an elite GM track record right there. If he doesn't, Gute may lose his job.

[xrade]

1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

You have one of the best GMs in the league because you have been able to draft in the top 5 to 10 almost every year with the 1 year not drafting in the top 10 having the lowly 11th pick. Also how are you judging a GM? His record as the GM sure is great considering the amount of high draft capital he has had: 

7-9

2-14

4-13

7-10 

Best GM in the league has 20 - 46 record. WOW what an accomplishment! By comparison the much maligned and terrible Bears are 25 - 41. The awful Texans have one more win then the Jets in that time period. 

We Jet fans have been clamoring for a GM that gets it since forever.  JD gets it.  It took a couple of years but we may finally have a roster that can compete.  I would not expect a GB fan to understand much like I would not expect a NE fan to understand.  But we seem to finally be on the right track.  To throw W-L stats is a complete misread on what he has done that do not show up in the stat tables.  Perhaps you will understand this if/when GB begins a long trek into the abyss.  But for now, show some class.

[jetfuel34]

12 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

My fault.  Had still included the 2019 pick.  Still, 33% of the drafts and one in which he had arguably the most amount of draft capital in NFL history.  Seems logical to think that the 2022 draft is the norma and not 2020 and 2021.

False not even close. Heck I know for a fact the jets had 4 first round picks back in the early 2000's. You had the cowboys who had way more capital than the Jets in the walker trade. This is just off the top of my head too. Then you keep leaving out that one part. JD got all the draft picks by trading Adams along with others to collect them so your proving my point he is a very good GM. 

[Bobby816]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

My fault.  Had still included the 2019 pick.  Still, 33% of the drafts and one in which he had arguably the most amount of draft capital in NFL history.  Seems logical to think that the 2022 draft is the norma and not 2020 and 2021.

So you’re bashing a GM that with trading Adams turned that into AVT and G Wilson (one of the best young OLineman in the NFL and OROY). Traded Darnold that allowed us to trade up for JJ. Hit on picks of DROY in Sauce and what would’ve been OROY over Wilson in Hall (who he traded up for). Also drafted a Becton who unfortunately has been injured (can’t blame the GM for that) and as a rookie was the best rookie OT in the NFL and looks motivated and in shape this year. Found mid late round gems in a great nickel CB in MC2. A great rotational RB in Carter. UDFA is Knight at RB, Echols at CB, Parks at FS. A great ST player in Sherwood (who is lowly to get a lot of action at LB this year for us). Clemons who looked great in limited snaps as a DE. Mitchell who was supposed to be a project looked good as an OT. Hall as a depth CB. These moves I guess don’t matter? Why bc Wilson didn’t work out yet? That Mims and Moore aren’t great? Mims story isn’t over and he turned Moore into potential for us this draft maybe.

 

He’s turned this franchise around to a wB away type franchise which was a long ways away from it was when he got it. I never wanted Wilson. I wanted Fields. What’s done is done though.

 

And now he might turn Elijah Moore,  a 2023 3rd and a 2024 2nd rounder into Aaron Rodgers and give us a 2 year run.

[NYJets4716]

Packers "leverage"

Wait until after 2023 draft, get no 2023 draft pick.

Wait until September, get zero draft pick or maybe a 7th. 

Sounds like it'll probably be one of our 2nd round picks and a conditional 2024 pick. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by NYJets4716

[Packerraymond]

6 minutes ago, NYJets4716 said:

Packers "leverage"

Wait until after 2023 draft, get no 2023 draft pick.

Wait until September, get zero draft pick or maybe a 7th. 

Sounds like it'll probably be one of our 2nd round picks and a conditional 2024 pick. 

Which if you guys have a home divisional game (one of the reported conditions) makes it a 1st in 2024 and the equivalent a a mid 1st this year. What our fanbase has said all along fair value was.

Did we want 13 and a pick in 2024? Yeah, but I'm sure you'd have preferred the Favre trade again. In the end, both teams show they had leverage because the value seems to be a push.

[Bobby816]

15 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

Which if you guys have a home divisional game (one of the reported conditions) makes it a 1st in 2024 and the equivalent a a mid 1st this year. What our fanbase has said all along fair value was.

Did we want 13 and a pick in 2024? Yeah, but I'm sure you'd have preferred the Favre trade again. In the end, both teams show they had leverage because the value seems to be a push.

Your fan base hasn’t been saying that all along. Maybe you have. But not your fan base.

Also it’s reported we aren’t letting that 2nd turn into a 1st unless we get something in 2025 if AR retires after 2023. So that seems to be the sticking point now. Seems if you want rather easily conditions for it to turn into a 1… then we want quite a good pick coming back to us in 2025 if he retires. Don’t want to give up that 2025 pick. Then the likelihood of that 2nd turning into a 1st goes down quite a bit on conditions (maybe we make it only if we make the SB).

 

So what would you rather

 

1. 43 and a 2024 2nd with no conditions.

2. 43 a 2024 that can turn into a 1st if we host a divisional game and you guys send us a 2nd in 2025 if AR retires after 2023. He doesn’t retire, you guys send nothing in 2025.

3. 43 and a 2024 2nd that can turn into a 1st if we make the SB and you guys send us a. 4th in 2025 if AR retires after 2023.

[Mdpackfan22]

2 hours ago, jetfuel34 said:

Bobby just save yourself. They have had a bad run of GM's and have no idea how a GM works the draft. Ever GM that they have had started with a franchise QB. That makes the GM work a lot easier and they still can't make the playoffs with a franchise QB. JD started out with the worse D in jets history and one of the worse in NFL in years. JD then moves them to a top 5 D. All he needs to do is stay the course. JD works the draft board and trades so well. 

Hold up, let me just understand I'm understanding this correctly. A fanbase who hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years is saying the Green Bay Packers, the most successful NFL franchise based off total wins and championships, has had a run of bad GMs? Since the Jets have last been to the playoffs, Packers have won a super bowl and been to 5 conference championships, 2 of those conference championships under Gute. That's with picking at the end of the 1st round every year, not picking top 5 every other year like the Jets. 

 

For as great as Jets fans claim JD has been, how come not one of his teams has been to the playoffs? 

Edited March 29, 2023 by Mdpackfan22

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Your fan base hasn’t been saying that all along. Maybe you have. But not your fan base.

Also it’s reported we aren’t letting that 2nd turn into a 1st unless we get something in 2025 if AR retires after 2023. So that seems to be the sticking point now. Seems if you want rather easily conditions for it to turn into a 1… then we want quite a good pick coming back to us in 2025 if he retires. Don’t want to give up that 2025 pick. Then the likelihood of that 2nd turning into a 1st goes down quite a bit on conditions (maybe we make it only if we make the SB).

 

So what would you rather

 

1. 43 and a 2024 2nd with no conditions.

2. 43 a 2024 that can turn into a 1st if we host a divisional game and you guys send us a 2nd in 2025 if AR retires after 2023. He doesn’t retire, you guys send nothing in 2025.

3. 43 and a 2024 2nd that can turn into a 1st if we make the SB and you guys send us a. 4th in 2025 if AR retires after 2023.

I already told you what my prediction was above. I think it will be a 3rd in 2025, Im sure the holdup is JD wanting a 2nd, but it will never happen. 

[Bobby816]

2 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Hold up, let me just understand I'm understanding this correctly. A fanbase who hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years is saying the Green Bay Packers, the most successful NFL franchise based off total wins and championships, has had a run of bad GMs? Since the Jets have last been to the playoffs, Packers have won a super bowl and been to 5 conference championships, 2 of those conference championships under Gute. That's with picking at the end of the 1st round every year, not picking top 5 every other year like the Jets. 

Which to have one if the best players to ever play the game for you for 15 years, to only win 1 SB isn’t successful.

A guy named Tom Brady who isn’t as talented as Rodgers (yes I think from a talent perspective AR > TB). Has won 7 SBs bc GMs gave talent around him. Something your GMs haven’t done or else that number would be way higher than 1 SB under 15 years of AR starting.

 

This isn’t a debate over who’s more successful. It’s that the GB fan base started saying JD isn’t good (when I’m pretty sure everyone would disagree with you around the league). So we’re simply calling out that 1 SB in 15 years with arguably the best QB in the league over that time. Isn’t good GMing

[Bobby816]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

I already told you what my prediction was above. I think it will be a 3rd in 2025, Im sure the holdup is JD wanting a 2nd, but it will never happen. 

Realistic 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Realistic 

Personally I think the condition should also be that of Rodgers retires because the Jets win the SB next year, that conditional pick is also waived.

[Mdpackfan22]

1 minute ago, Bobby816 said:

Which to have one if the best players to ever play the game for you for 15 years, to only win 1 SB isn’t successful.

A guy named Tom Brady who isn’t as talented as Rodgers (yes I think from a talent perspective AR > TB). Has won 7 SBs bc GMs gave talent around him. Something your GMs haven’t done or else that number would be way higher than 1 SB under 15 years of AR starting.

 

This isn’t a debate over who’s more successful. It’s that the GB fan base started saying JD isn’t good (when I’m pretty sure everyone would disagree with you around the league). So we’re simply calling out that 1 SB in 15 years with arguably the best QB in the league over that time. Isn’t good GMing

My brother in Christ, yall can't even make the playoffs, much less sniff a super bowl. Calling the Packers unsuccessful because we only have 1 SB win under Rodgers is hysterical considering you guys can literally not even make the playoffs after have high draft picks for years on end. 

[Packerraymond]

7 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

Which to have one if the best players to ever play the game for you for 15 years, to only win 1 SB isn’t successful.

A guy named Tom Brady who isn’t as talented as Rodgers (yes I think from a talent perspective AR > TB). Has won 7 SBs bc GMs gave talent around him. Something your GMs haven’t done or else that number would be way higher than 1 SB under 15 years of AR starting.

 

This isn’t a debate over who’s more successful. It’s that the GB fan base started saying JD isn’t good (when I’m pretty sure everyone would disagree with you around the league). So we’re simply calling out that 1 SB in 15 years with arguably the best QB in the league over that time. Isn’t good GMing

Unfortunately since 2014 the guy you're about to acquire has come up small in the NFCCG. Hard to admit cause I loved watching him, but Rodgers has 2-3 SBs if Rodgers plays as well in the NFCCG as well as he does in the divisional round.

[jetfuel34]

12 minutes ago, Mdpackfan22 said:

Hold up, let me just understand I'm understanding this correctly. A fanbase who hasn't made the playoffs in 12 years is saying the Green Bay Packers, the most successful NFL franchise based off total wins and championships, has had a run of bad GMs? Since the Jets have last been to the playoffs, Packers have won a super bowl and been to 5 conference championships, 2 of those conference championships under Gute. That's with picking at the end of the 1st round every year, not picking top 5 every other year like the Jets. 

 

For as great as Jets fans claim JD has been, how come not one of his teams has been to the playoffs? 

You should not be proud of that. You had AR and come away with 1 Super Bowl and you happy about that. You do know who the Jets have had as QB in the last 15 years right. Having AR should put GB in the playoffs every year but yet they missed the playoffs last year. So ya your GM has thrown the golden goose away (AR) with 1 ring. Ya your GM's are great. Just wait if Love fails you will know what it is like to try to win without a QB. I remember the days when you guys had magic man Don as QB and how bad you guys where. You have had a franchise QB for almost 30 years. That is VERY rare to find. You have to go back to the days of Montana and Young to find such a good run of QB's in a row for a team.