QB Talk Once Again.... sigh

[ukjets21]

16 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

You can say that all you want. But you're 100% wrong. Wilson will be given every opportunity to win the QB job in TC and PS. 

As I said, we'll be stuck with him because it's a sunk cost. If he's in competition he'll lose it because he's terrible - which is fine. I won't cry over a wasted 3rd QB roster spot but that is what it is.

[ukjets21]

13 hours ago, drew39k said:

Just like how Q was a sunk cost and should have been traded? 

Why the heck are people in such a rush to throw players away?

ZW was raw and unpolished coming out of college, right? The expectation was that there were going to be transitional issues, right? Now that he is going through those issues and having struggles that were expected.... suddenly it's time to abandon development and just throw away assets?

Seriously, it was the same talk last off-season about Quinnen...

It's the same short sighted approach we've take with every single QB we've drafted in the post Pennington era. Pennington worked because we drafted him, sat him, surrounded him with talent and veteran leaders and let him grow. That's the path to success but everyone refuses to do it anymore and is then stunned when the young high upside QBs we draft done have instant success.

 

Don't be ridiculous. Quinnen Williams was a good player who has emerged into a very good/great player over several years. Zach Wilson is by nearly any measure the worst QB in the league to see meaningful appearances. Statistically he's comparable to JaMarcus Russell, Quinnen Williams wasn't comparable to an equivalent DL bust. 

 

In general, I'm all in favour of patience with drafted QB's (was with Sanchez and Darnold) but sometimes you've just got to cut loose early when you've got a real stinker on your hands.

[doumeyer]

I don't know what is worst Wilson', play or his attitudle. I still can't get over that stupid statement he made after his last post game conference. I think most guys on this board got it right, Wilson, at that this point of time is weeks if not away months from being a starting QB for the Jets. After we gave away the store to get Darnold with the third overall pick in the draft now we have Wilson who we got withe second overall pick in the draft. With Wilson trade value at rock bottom  he will we on the Jets roster for at least two years.

[GangGreen420]

Jordan Love could be available 

[Bobby816]

9 hours ago, ukjets21 said:

As I said, we'll be stuck with him because it's a sunk cost. If he's in competition he'll lose it because he's terrible - which is fine. I won't cry over a wasted 3rd QB roster spot but that is what it is.

He is exactly who I thought he'd be. And 75% plus on this board ripped me for.

He was far from NFL ready. I wanted Fields. And my main reason for that was that I thought the risk of Wilson was far greater than that of Fields. So while from a strictly arm talent and such point... Wilson's ceiling was higher. The floor of Fields was higher. And a QB starved team like us IMO couldn't afford that risk. I backed off preaching this pretty much when it became apparent that we were 100% drafting Wilson. So there was no sense of me for years saying how I wanted Fields more.

To dive deeper. The reason why we see Wilson struggling is mental. He has all the physical tools. Great arm, mobility, etc. But he just doesn't know how to QB in the NFL at a high level yet. The thing with this is he can be taught this. This is coachable. And this is why we wont give up on him any time soon. Wilson's main issues were leaving the pocket WAY TOO early. He wasn't hitting guys quickly. He was waiting too long for plays to develop. He had all the time in the world when he was at BYU. So he wasn't prepared for this. When a guy like Fields was facing DEs from Michigan in Hutchinson and stuff. So he was more prepared for NFL talent on the other side of the ball. We can talk about how White has been good. But he has his limitations. And you've seen me for 2 weeks criticize White. Not saying that we need to go back to White. But its baffling to me that White gets passes on things like he he cant throw the ball down the field. His average throw is like 6 yards down the field through 3 weeks. He's a statue in the pocket. So creativity is out. I find it crazy how quick guys are to bash Wilson and be done with him, yet White gets a pass. He has 0 TDs and 2 INTs the last 2 weeks in 2 losses and 1 of those defenses was arguably the worst secondary in the league.

Watching White maybe is helping Wilson. See how fast the ball needs to get out. See how he should hang in the pocket longer than he was and not be so quick to improvise. Get the ball in the playmakers hands. Once he can start doing these things his game vastly makes us better than that of White. Bc unlike White if he can get rid of the ball and hit guys and make quick decisions... Wilson is also capable of taking the long shots down field to keep a D in check as well as escapablity.

 

As a fan base we all should be 100% cheering for Wilson to be our starter.

While some might not like it or want to hear it. White would never have started if we weren't in a playoff race. Wilson would be still trying to learn in game if we were a 3-4 win team after that NE loss. 

[GangGreen420]

2 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

He is exactly who I thought he'd be. And 75% plus on this board ripped me for.

He was far from NFL ready. I wanted Fields. And my main reason for that was that I thought the risk of Wilson was far greater than that of Fields. So while from a strictly arm talent and such point... Wilson's ceiling was higher. The floor of Fields was higher. And a QB starved team like us IMO couldn't afford that risk. I backed off preaching this pretty much when it became apparent that we were 100% drafting Wilson. So there was no sense of me for years saying how I wanted Fields more.

To dive deeper. The reason why we see Wilson struggling is mental. He has all the physical tools. Great arm, mobility, etc. But he just doesn't know how to QB in the NFL at a high level yet. The thing with this is he can be taught this. This is coachable. And this is why we wont give up on him any time soon. Wilson's main issues were leaving the pocket WAY TOO early. He wasn't hitting guys quickly. He was waiting too long for plays to develop. He had all the time in the world when he was at BYU. So he wasn't prepared for this. When a guy like Fields was facing DEs from Michigan in Hutchinson and stuff. So he was more prepared for NFL talent on the other side of the ball. We can talk about how White has been good. But he has his limitations. And you've seen me for 2 weeks criticize White. Not saying that we need to go back to White. But its baffling to me that White gets passes on things like he he cant throw the ball down the field. His average throw is like 6 yards down the field through 3 weeks. He's a statue in the pocket. So creativity is out. I find it crazy how quick guys are to bash Wilson and be done with him, yet White gets a pass. He has 0 TDs and 2 INTs the last 2 weeks in 2 losses and 1 of those defenses was arguably the worst secondary in the league.

Watching White maybe is helping Wilson. See how fast the ball needs to get out. See how he should hang in the pocket longer than he was and not be so quick to improvise. Get the ball in the playmakers hands. Once he can start doing these things his game vastly makes us better than that of White. Bc unlike White if he can get rid of the ball and hit guys and make quick decisions... Wilson is also capable of taking the long shots down field to keep a D in check as well as escapablity.

 

As a fan base we all should be 100% cheering for Wilson to be our starter.

While some might not like it or want to hear it. White would never have started if we weren't in a playoff race. Wilson would be still trying to learn in game if we were a 3-4 win team after that NE loss. 

Talent doesn’t matter if you can’t put it together. Countless strong armed, collegiate juggernaut QBs with all the “tools” come out and bust all the time. The fact of the matter is Wilson has not performed like you would even want a backup QB in this league to.

After 20 games he’s worse than JaMarcus Russell. Believe it or not, this is when QBs that bad get benched. Why do Jets fans get all up in arms when other fans have given up on him? Trust me, we all WANT him to succeed but the fact of the matter is he’s shown us NOTHING to believe that will happen. When your like QB35, there isn’t much to be excited about. Compare that to White, who has shown significantly more, why do you think the fan base is more excited about him?

I don’t even know where you get the bolded from. He’s been 2nd in YPG (not that it really matters), his YPA is 12th and his completed air yards per pass attempt is tied with Mahomes at 14th. 

 

 

[NJerseypaint]

3 hours ago, Bobby816 said:

He is exactly who I thought he'd be. And 75% plus on this board ripped me for.

He was far from NFL ready. I wanted Fields. And my main reason for that was that I thought the risk of Wilson was far greater than that of Fields. So while from a strictly arm talent and such point... Wilson's ceiling was higher. The floor of Fields was higher. And a QB starved team like us IMO couldn't afford that risk. I backed off preaching this pretty much when it became apparent that we were 100% drafting Wilson. So there was no sense of me for years saying how I wanted Fields more.

To dive deeper. The reason why we see Wilson struggling is mental. He has all the physical tools. Great arm, mobility, etc. But he just doesn't know how to QB in the NFL at a high level yet. The thing with this is he can be taught this. This is coachable. And this is why we wont give up on him any time soon. Wilson's main issues were leaving the pocket WAY TOO early. He wasn't hitting guys quickly. He was waiting too long for plays to develop. He had all the time in the world when he was at BYU. So he wasn't prepared for this. When a guy like Fields was facing DEs from Michigan in Hutchinson and stuff. So he was more prepared for NFL talent on the other side of the ball. We can talk about how White has been good. But he has his limitations. And you've seen me for 2 weeks criticize White. Not saying that we need to go back to White. But its baffling to me that White gets passes on things like he he cant throw the ball down the field. His average throw is like 6 yards down the field through 3 weeks. He's a statue in the pocket. So creativity is out. I find it crazy how quick guys are to bash Wilson and be done with him, yet White gets a pass. He has 0 TDs and 2 INTs the last 2 weeks in 2 losses and 1 of those defenses was arguably the worst secondary in the league.

Watching White maybe is helping Wilson. See how fast the ball needs to get out. See how he should hang in the pocket longer than he was and not be so quick to improvise. Get the ball in the playmakers hands. Once he can start doing these things his game vastly makes us better than that of White. Bc unlike White if he can get rid of the ball and hit guys and make quick decisions... Wilson is also capable of taking the long shots down field to keep a D in check as well as escapablity.

 

As a fan base we all should be 100% cheering for Wilson to be our starter.

While some might not like it or want to hear it. White would never have started if we weren't in a playoff race. Wilson would be still trying to learn in game if we were a 3-4 win team after that NE loss. 

I think if we sat Wilson from the start he'd be much further along. It takes QBs time to get used to the NFL and learning on the field can be good if you are from a small market team like Buffalo but NYC has no patience for that. We eat QBs alive for not being Tom Brady out the gate, and frankly, every young QB we get eventually cracks.

Let him sit and learn without all that pressure and he probably gets over most of his issues (skittishness, accuracy, etc) just by having more confidence.

[Bobby816]

41 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I think if we sat Wilson from the start he'd be much further along. It takes QBs time to get used to the NFL and learning on the field can be good if you are from a small market team like Buffalo but NYC has no patience for that. We eat QBs alive for not being Tom Brady out the gate, and frankly, every young QB we get eventually cracks.

Let him sit and learn without all that pressure and he probably gets over most of his issues (skittishness, accuracy, etc) just by having more confidence.

I agree. being from a small school and with White and Flacco on the roster last year he in hindsight should've started on the bench. The game from BYU to NFL is just too fats for him. The game needs to slow down. And that only happens with time and learning. 2 things that can happen. And that's why we shouldn't give up on him. When the game slows down for him, I think we will see him in a different light. And I do actually think that will happen sometime next season. It easy to forget that he was in fact 5-2 as the starter. He wasn't like this guy just sucking and we went 1-6 with him in there.

[GangGreen420]

47 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

I agree. being from a small school and with White and Flacco on the roster last year he in hindsight should've started on the bench. The game from BYU to NFL is just too fats for him. The game needs to slow down. And that only happens with time and learning. 2 things that can happen. And that's why we shouldn't give up on him. When the game slows down for him, I think we will see him in a different light. And I do actually think that will happen sometime next season. It easy to forget that he was in fact 5-2 as the starter. He wasn't like this guy just sucking and we went 1-6 with him in there.

No offense, but this is the laziest, worst take going around the Jets fan base right now. If this was the case, why would they bench him?

You really think Zach Wilson was the reason we went 5-2? And then downplay Mike White as some type of dink and dunk artist who’s “thrown 0 tds and 2 ints” the last 2 weeks?

Wilson will get another shot and hopefully he excels however unlikely, but let’s at least keep it real here.

[NJerseypaint]

32 minutes ago, GangGreen420 said:

No offense, but this is the laziest, worst take going around the Jets fan base right now. If this was the case, why would they bench him?

You really think Zach Wilson was the reason we went 5-2? And then downplay Mike White as some type of dink and dunk artist who’s “thrown 0 tds and 2 ints” the last 2 weeks?

Wilson will get another shot and hopefully he excels however unlikely, but let’s at least keep it real here.

You're putting words in his mouth. Zach did go 5-2 - so he wasn't so awful that he lost us a string of games; he was good enough most of the time. Meanwhile MW has been insulated from the same criticism when he's 1-2 and his last two performances have been lackluster.

That's as real as it gets.

[GangGreen420]

15 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

You're putting words in his mouth. Zach did go 5-2 - so he wasn't so awful that he lost us a string of games; he was good enough most of the time. Meanwhile MW has been insulated from the same criticism when he's 1-2 and his last two performances have been lackluster.

That's as real as it gets.

If he was “good enough” then why did the Jets bench him? And what criticism is Mike White insulated from exactly? His problems are vastly different than Zach Wilson’s. 

Wins are a team stat, not a QB stat. If it was as simple as “he went 5-2” he’d still be in the lineup.

[KimuraGod]

1 hour ago, NJerseypaint said:

You're putting words in his mouth. Zach did go 5-2 - so he wasn't so awful that he lost us a string of games; he was good enough most of the time. Meanwhile MW has been insulated from the same criticism when he's 1-2 and his last two performances have been lackluster.

That's as real as it gets.

If Mike White has been lacklustre then what word can describe Zachs performances?  
 

I was really hoping Zach would succeed here but he’s quite frankly not good enough. Mike White has shown the ability to constantly move us up and down the field against good defense/terrible weather conditions. 
 

I think these next two games against good up and coming teams but defenses which aren’t that good will show us what we have in Mike White. If he’s what I and many others think he will light it up and show he’s the guy moving forward.

[NJerseypaint]

1 hour ago, KimuraGod said:

If Mike White has been lacklustre then what word can describe Zachs performances?

The last NE game? Atrocious. Everything else, also lackluster.

I'd rather have MW play the whole season because I think he gives us the best chance to win, but I'm not enamored with him. His best game was beating up a bad CHI team, something we also watched Zach do to the Dolphins (remember, he had 2 TDs stopped at the 1). He's had two games against two real, playoff contenders, and was unspectacular. Had he been a bit better we probably beat the Vikings, and had he any legs on him, we likely beat the Bills too (and he likely leaves with his ribs intact).

[GangGreen420]

20 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

The last NE game? Atrocious. Everything else, also lackluster.

I'd rather have MW play the whole season because I think he gives us the best chance to win, but I'm not enamored with him. His best game was beating up a bad CHI team, something we also watched Zach do to the Dolphins (remember, he had 2 TDs stopped at the 1). He's had two games against two real, playoff contenders, and was unspectacular. Had he been a bit better we probably beat the Vikings, and had he any legs on him, we likely beat the Bills too (and he likely leaves with his ribs intact).

Yeah, it’s Whites fault Berrios dropped the game winning pass that he had pulled into his chest and dropped. He catches that and we aren’t even having this conversation.

And losing the turnover battle surely had nothing to do with us losing to the Bills right? Sort of like how we beat them earlier in the season when they turned it over to us a few times? Nah, it was Mike Whites lack of mobility which is why we lost. 

I have my doubts about him as our QBOTF but some of these takes are just out there. We lost two road games to 10 win teams by one score. It is what it is, but he’s thrown for the 2nd most yards in the league since he’s came in, he’s clearly moving the offense. For whatever reason we can’t finish. We also couldn’t finish with Zach as evidenced by his season total of 4 touchdown passes.

Edited December 16, 2022 by GangGreen420

[NJerseypaint]

1 minute ago, GangGreen420 said:

Yeah, it’s Whites fault Berrios dropped the game winning pass that he had pulled into his chest and dropped. He catches that and we aren’t even having this conversation.

And losing the turnover battle surely had nothing to do with us losing to the Bills right? Sort of like how we beat them earlier in the season when they turned it over to us a few times? Nah, it was Mike Whites lack of mobility which is why we lost. 

Vikings: That last quarter MW was having trouble hitting anyone and almost had 3 picks on the day - and against arguably the worst pass defense in the league.

Bills: Flacco doesn't go in if Mike White doesn't take those hits. Saves us one TO. His legs also didn't help his sacks. We moved from BUF to NYJ territory 3 times from sacks, once from the 40 on a MW fumble.