Head coaching candidates thread

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

1 hour ago, Griff254 said:

I believe it’s fully time to come to terms with Dan Quinn or Raheem Morris as the hire. 

 

Come to terms with it? They’ve been in my top 3 for the last 2 coaching hiring cycles? We made a mistake last year by not picking one of them (my preference is still for Quinn) let’s not make that mistake again!

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

7 minutes ago, broncos67 said:

I know you don't like Quinn, but the hyperbole is absolutely ridiculous at this point. Quinn went to a SB, his offenses consistently finished Top 10 with and without Wilson. His defense is Dallas has been fantastic. He's well regarded across the league, players love him, he'll assemble a good coaching staff. He won't cost draft picks.

I'd take the counter argument here and say Quinn seems to have an eye for assembling coaching staffs with offensive talent. Why is that a bad thing? I see people holding this against him, but why? Isn't that what we've been dissatisfied with for the last 8 years?

People like Payton because he's a bigger name and won a SB. That's a perfectly legitimate reason to like him. What people are forgetting (or choosing to ignore) is that Payton as a GM is absolute trash. You okay with the contract he gave Taysom Hill? The cap hell he left the Saints in? The way he bailed on the organization after he left them high and dry?

It's just weird how there's so much vitriol directed at Quinn, but people don't want to talk about those glaring negatives around Payton.

Agreed! Plus Quinn has a better win % in the playoffs. Payton had a HOF QB during his run in NO. You know what exactly 0 of the 2nd time HC to win a SB had in their first job? A HOF QB. It’s almost like once they get to a job without that they don’t fare as well, kinda like we saw with Payton his one season after Brees retired….

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

If we’re going to throw around crazy nonsense labels about coaches then I’m in on Payton as a the coach who held Bree’s back to a single Lombardi while riding his HOF coat tails. 
 

equally ridiculous take as Quinn being a “loser coach” lol

[jolly red giant]

Payton also won the superbowl on the back of paying bounties to his own players to injure opposing players, particularly QBs - a scandal that saw him suspended for a season and saw the Saints lose 2 second round draft picks (it should have been a lot more).

[Griff254]

23 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said:

Come to terms with it? They’ve been in my top 3 for the last 2 coaching hiring cycles? We made a mistake last year by not picking one of them (my preference is still for Quinn) let’s not make that mistake again!

Ya, there’s people who are going to meltdown if it’s not Payton. Honestly i might be the sole person I’m not sure but I’d be very very excited about hiring Jim Caldwell.

[broncos67]

9 minutes ago, Griff254 said:

Ya, there’s people who are going to meltdown if it’s not Payton. Honestly i might be the sole person I’m not sure but I’d be very very excited about hiring Jim Caldwell.

Most of the people who would melt down about it are casual fans, and if the Broncos win (regardless of coach) they'll be beating their chests. Hopefully no one organizationally takes people like that seriously.

[Dbrog24]

I think we can absolutely kiss any chance of strong playoff runs goodbye if we pull the trigger on Payton. Not only does it completely mortgage our future at a time where we NEED a blue chip piece on our O Line (would also set up much better for a rookie qb if we still suck), it likely means we lose Evero (for no picks) AND lose Paton in favor of a destructive saints style management. People talk about the Patriot way but this is just as bad imo. 

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Dbrog24

[French Fan]

-Sean PAYTON 

-Dan QUINN

-Ejiro EVERO

-Jim CALDWELL

-David SHAW

-Raheem MORRIS

-DeMeco RYANS

All have pros and cons. I don't think we have a coach who stands out from the rest.

Payton only 1 SB despite HOF QB 

QUINN bad reputation since Atlanta

Evero not see enough

CALDWELL recycled

Shaw coming from College

MORRIS and RYANS are defensive Coach as QUINN. My favorite and not my choice for the job are : PAYTON, SHAW and CALDWELL bcause are offensive minded coach. If Quinn or another are the hire....EVERO is out. And Denver want Ejiro at Defensive position.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by French Fan

[AnAngryAmerican]

Quinn’s offensive staff in Atlanta after Kyle & Co. left for SF included Steve Sarkisian, Gregg Knapp, Justin Outten (as low-level assistant, so look for him to stay) and Dirk Koetter, among others. After Kyle and his staff left, Atlanta went 24-29 (10-6, 7-9, 7-9, 0-5) before Quinn was fired. That’s a losing record. 

I’m not giving Quinn credit for the offensive staff that Pete Carroll assembled in Seattle as it’s highly unlikely he had any influence there as he was initially hired a defensive line coach. 

Not one of Houston, Indy, Carolina or Arizona have interviewed, or announced plans to interview, Quinn for their current HC openings. That’s despite working the last 2 years for the overhyped Cowboys. 

There’s fair criticism to be made of Sean Payton, I fully acknowledge that, and the criticism extends beyond just having to give up draft capital to acquire him. But to listen to some people around here and elsewhere, some are talking about Dan Quinn like he’s Don Shula. 

[broncos_fan _from _uk]

I think I’m the biggest Quinn supporter and I would hardly compare him to a HOFer lol. I do think he has the highest floor though, and that’s what we need right now.

 

ranked in terms of highest ceiling:

1)Evero

2)Ryans

3)Payton

4)Quinn

5)Morris

here is where I think you can draw the line of folks with a realistic shot of winning a SB in the next 10 years

6) Shaw

7)Caldwell

 

ranked in terms of highest floor (not only record with them, but likely hood to flame out AND the state in which they leave the franchise in if they reach said floor and flame out)

1) Quinn

2) Morris

3) Caldwell

4) Evero

5)Shaw

6) Ryans

7) Payton (he’s honestly probably  in the  Morris/Caldwell group in likelyhood to flame out, but given the capital it would take to acquire him if he does flame out it would set this franchise back an additional 4-5 years)

Quinn brings a John fox stabilizing force coupled with a Gary kubiak ability to lead a franchise and prepare/motivate his team. He always seems to push the right buttons. 
 

if he’s our coach I put our SB chances under him at only 50%, but o guarantee we end our playoff drought and become a respectable franchise again.

[Broncofan]

FWIW, I don't think it's a given that Quinn hiring would mean Evero is out.   I do worry about it with Quinn, it's not nearly the same lock as with Harbaugh in the fold.   But A HC shouldn't be down in the reeds, doing the O / D play calling.   In fact, it's one of the downfalls when HC's get promoted.   

For example - Brian Daboll hired Mike Kafka from KC to be the play-caller.    Daboll's intimately involved in the pre-game prep work - but NOT in-game.  He lets Kafka call the plays, other than the game management calls.   It shows.    As a contrast, a guy who I really like (and still do), Mike McDaniel - does call the plays.   He's been very good at it, but his game management has suffered (and one wonders if he didn't pick up on Tua's injury either, being so preoccupied with in-game adjustments).   To be fair, Kevin O'Connell (another guy I've liked and still do) does the play-calling in MIN, he hasn't suffered quite the same problems, but it's worth noting. 

With Harbaugh gone, I have no problem with every one on the original list - I'm not a fan of Caldwell as our problem-solver.   I'd much rather we take a shot on Ryans or Morris TBH (although then we'd probably lose Evero with Ryans).   

If Quinn were to come with the right OC and keep Evero, I'd be OK with it for sure.   I wouldn't be nearly as excited as I would with Harbaugh/Evero, but that ship has sailed.     I would be questioning very much if Quinn has learned his lesson re: game management if he decided he was going to be HC and be the in-game D-play caller.   That's why I'd be hopeful even if Quinn is the guy, and he has taken the lessons of being a game manager requiring way more attention as HC than trying to pull double duty, that Evero is still our DC.   And if Evero is as good in year 2 as he was this year - then we get the comp picks back when he leaves in year 2 (we get nothing if he leaves now, but still seems like a long shot even with 4 HC interviews).

Fingers crossed we hire the right guy - and keeping Evero as DC IMO is a huge part of that.

 

Edited January 17, 2023 by Broncofan

[AnAngryAmerican]

There aren’t many HCs that do well both handing in-game management and calling plays simultaneously , KO’C is one as you mention, McVay, Kyle, Belichick calls defense in NE with success. 

Would Quinn call the defense here? I don’t remember if he did in Atlanta. If so, bye-bye Evero.

I do think both The Walmarts and George know we have a special coach in Evero and likely are eying those picks in 2024 so I’d wager whomever we hire as HC will be at the very least strongly encouraged to keep Evero, which might take Payton off the table as he is rumored to want Vic. 

[AnAngryAmerican]

I was just thinking about this - the choice between Payton and one of the other 6 could mean at least 3 draft picks.

We trade one, likely that 1st from SF thru MIA (maybe more) to NO to get Payton. Then, if Payton chooses not to retain Evero, we would miss out on the two 3rd round compensatory picks if and when Evero gets an HC job in next cycle or two. 

Is Payton worth that? I’m not so sure and I say that as someone who is more warm than most of you here to hiring him. 

However, even if my gut is right and the Walmarts will require or at least push for the HC to retain Evero, it’s not guaranteed. One of the candidates with a defensive background - Ryans, Quinn and Morris - could just as likely as Payton let him leave and bring in their own guy or call the defense himself. If the new HC wants to call the defense there’s a good chance Evero would leave on his own volition rather than stick around to be a DC in name only (look at Bienemy in KC, one reason he hasn’t gotten a HC job is that it’s Andy’s offense) and Evero might not want to end up in that situation. 

Edited January 17, 2023 by AnAngryAmerican

[broncos67]

4 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Quinn’s offensive staff in Atlanta after Kyle & Co. left for SF included Steve Sarkisian, Gregg Knapp, Justin Outten (as low-level assistant, so look for him to stay) and Dirk Koetter, among others. After Kyle and his staff left, Atlanta went 24-29 (10-6, 7-9, 7-9, 0-5) before Quinn was fired. That’s a losing record. 

I’m not giving Quinn credit for the offensive staff that Pete Carroll assembled in Seattle as it’s highly unlikely he had any influence there as he was initially hired a defensive line coach. 

Not one of Houston, Indy, Carolina or Arizona have interviewed, or announced plans to interview, Quinn for their current HC openings. That’s despite working the last 2 years for the overhyped Cowboys. 

There’s fair criticism to be made of Sean Payton, I fully acknowledge that, and the criticism extends beyond just having to give up draft capital to acquire him. But to listen to some people around here and elsewhere, some are talking about Dan Quinn like he’s Don Shula. 

No one is talking about him like he's Don Shula, but I'd offer that you're talking about him like he's some bottom of the barrel coach, which is equally untrue.

[broncos67]

30 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I was just thinking about this - the choice between Payton and one of the other 6 could mean at least 3 draft picks.

We trade one, likely that 1st from SF thru MIA (maybe more) to NO to get Payton. Then, if Payton chooses not to retain Evero, we would miss out on the two 3rd round compensatory picks if and when Evero gets an HC job in next cycle or two. 

Is Payton worth that? I’m not so sure and I say that as someone who is more warm than most of you here to hiring him. 

However, even if my gut is right and the Walmarts will require or at least push for the HC to retain Evero, it’s not guaranteed. One of the candidates with a defensive background - Ryans, Quinn and Morris - could just as likely as Payton let him leave and bring in their own guy or call the defense himself. If the new HC wants to call the defense there’s a good chance Evero would leave on his own volition rather than stick around to be a DC in name only (look at Bienemy in KC, one reason he hasn’t gotten a HC job is that it’s Andy’s offense) and Evero might not want to end up in that situation. 

I want to be clear, I don't think Payton is a bad coach, because he's not. I don't think he's the greatest coach the league has ever seen either. My stance is mainly based on comp. I am not sure it makes sense to trade a R1 pick for a coach. I would acknowledge that with an even semi-competent coach, we make the playoffs this year. Especially given our defense.

Part of my worry with Payton is losing George Paton. I think there's plenty to criticize (some right, some wrong) with Paton, but from what I've seen he's been a great personnel guy and a fairly shrewd draft pick acquirer/draft manipulator. Denver has frequently come out on top of most trades.

I don't think giving him up for Sean Payton and whomever is wise when you consider the state he left the Saints in. That would be my #1, #2 and #3 questions for him going forward - how do you ensure that doesn't happen again?