Broncofan Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: That’s what I was saying the other day, the floor is SOOOOO low with Payton and his ceiling isn’t any higher. This is a guy who had a HOF QB and in the 9 years since he wasn’t allowed to pay his players to injure folks anymore played good, not great ball (playoffs in 5/9 years. .444 playoff record). I am not a fan. If we hire him I hope to hell I’m wrong and he becomes a Wilson whisperer. But it reeks of throwing good money after bad in an attempt to fix the Russell Wilson mistake. In some ways if Payton came I’d rather he sign a 7-8 year deal and not a 4-year deal. The risk he cuts and runs like he did when the NO cap butcher’s bill finally came due (you can push it back 4-5 years like they did with cap moves available now but yea it still comes due) - I’d rather he be tied to us for that long. There is upside for this to work but outside of a SB ring, it’s then based on Payton staying long enough post-Wilson to develop the next QB and bring stability to the franchise brand. To only bring Payton in for the pick cost only to fix Wilson and have no long term commitment with him post-Wilson would be suboptimal to say the least. I’d much rather keep the picks for sure. Diff story if he’s going to be here for the long run but we need that kind of guarantee upfront (realizing he could still walk - but then we could leverage a pick return like NO can now). If it’s only Wal-mart money that’s at risk I’d rather lock him in for 7-8 years so he can’t leave early. A 4-year deal would come with a lot more risk he could cut and run NO-style, expect with no pick compensation. Edited January 20, 2023 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 The number of people who are willing to overlook (or don't fully understand) what Payton did to the Saints cap/draft pick situation and then how he ran off on them is actually shocking to me. All because he had a SB win with Brees 14 years ago. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zukhyubern Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, broncos67 said: The number of people who are willing to overlook (or don't fully understand) what Payton did to the Saints cap/draft pick situation and then how he ran off on them is actually shocking to me. All because he had a SB win with Brees 14 years ago. Does their GM (still with the franchise) not get any blame for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, grizmo78 said: If Payton was playing his cards right he could, once he decided where he would like to go, refuse to coach for any other team and basically take everyone out of the bidding for him. That way it would force the Saints to trade him for much cheaper than they'd like to in order to get any compensation and give Payton more/better picks to improve the roster. I agree with many though in that if we're trading a 1st+ for Payton, the risk is too much for me to be happy with it. Worst case scenario we trade multiple 1st round picks for him and give him a 25mil/yr contract, we're still underachieving for a year or two because of a depleted roster and Russ doesn't improve nearly enough then Payton decides he actually likes the TV life better and leaves us cut and dry like he did NO. Like UK said above, I hope I'm wrong but there are too many ways this can go south. If it’s 2 1sts it’s hard to see it going well. Because of the restrictions on cheap roster construction. At least with the SF pick you know it’s a late 20’s pick. And you are restocked next year. I do wonder if Payton saying the late 1st was exactly what you are referring to. Because he could absolutely tell NO he’s willing to sit another year if it’s not Denver. NO needs the picks to accelerate the rebuild. They don’t need it badly enough to take a lowball 3rd offer as been suggested - but waiting a year hurts them too. And we move on and then Payton doesn’t come here either. So no guarantee the same bidding war occurs to the same extent next year either. The FO stare down is going to be very interesting. There’s a threshold which NO won’t go below and a threshold DEN won’t go above. I don’t think it’s a coincidence Payton’s comments came out. He’s likely trying to facilitate both sides agreeing now that he’s interested. At 2 firsts I’d tell Payton we like you a lot but no one is worth that. Edited January 20, 2023 by Broncofan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 8 minutes ago, Zukhyubern said: Does their GM (still with the franchise) not get any blame for this? Sure he does, but if it were any other coach it would be a hard no for just about everyone. I think Payton is a great option for the Broncos. I do not think he's so head and shoulders above every other option that we should be trading premium picks and committing to long-term big money deals for him. He wants a significantly increased role in the roster and the personnel. He had that in NO and it left them in cap and contractual hell and then he literally chose to just retire to not have to deal with it. Imagine if Dan Quinn did something like that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos67 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 One other Payton-related thing I've been trying (unsuccessfully) to find is what his HC record was with NO in/out of the dome. I don't know that it's material or that it particularly matters, but does his style of play consistently work in colder weather/outdoor environments. I think I saw something like the team won ~70% of their home games under Payton in a dome. This isn't, in my mind, a strike against him, but just thinking out loud, it's something to think about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dbrog24 Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: I understand this train of thought, the issue is, besides being short, the two QBs have nothing in common. Brees was a pocket QB who thrived on timing throws. He had great pocket awareness and could throw from multiple arm angles to fit his passes through the line/ around the linemen and was able to use the middle of the field. russ is a line of sight passer with a cannon arm who needs a strong running game to pull the defense close so that he could take advantage of deep passes, sideline passes, and broken/scramble plays. All indications are that Russ WANTS to become Brees, but early indications (the last year and a half) have shown that’s likely not who he is. I think it would actually be more comparable to what he did with Jameis Winston at this point in Russ' career. I will say Payton did in fact figure out how to work with a lot of Winston's warts while still allowing him to throw the long ball. The downside to this is we simply don't have much of a sample size, as then Winston got hurt. I guess it comes down to whether we think Payton would entertain Wilson trying to make the transition to Brees, or if he will tell him that he will never be like Brees and instead focus on what Wilson HAS shown to be good at. Edited January 20, 2023 by Dbrog24 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 4 hours ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: That’s what I was saying the other day, the floor is SOOOOO low with Payton and his ceiling isn’t any higher. This is a guy who had a HOF QB and in the 9 years since he wasn’t allowed to pay his players to injure folks anymore played good, not great ball (playoffs in 5/9 years. .444 playoff record). I am not a fan. If we hire him I hope to hell I’m wrong and he becomes a Wilson whisperer. But it reeks of throwing good money after bad in an attempt to fix the Russell Wilson mistake. If he has problems with Wilson he can always call Jerry and ask him what he did to turn Wilson around in the last two games. probably talk to Outten and Kubiak too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 Imagine trading all those high end picks to get Russell Wilson, then trading potentially more high end picks for Payton to fix him. It's already an all time bad trade, that would be the icing on the cake. And Payton!? The guy had 5 sub .500 seasons with Drew Brees as his QB. Kept kicking the can down the road until the bill came due and bounced. That really your guy? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoBruin Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Imagine trading all those high end picks to get Russell Wilson, then trading potentially more high end picks for Payton to fix him. It's already an all time bad trade, that would be the icing on the cake. And Payton!? The guy had 5 sub .500 seasons with Drew Brees as his QB. Kept kicking the can down the road until the bill came due and bounced. That really your guy? Worst record in his 15 years was 7-9 with some historically bad defenses. I get that he’s no Josh McDaniels but if you really want to dig into the resume there’s a lot more good than bad. The cost in a trade is the only reason I’m hesitant. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 20, 2023 Share Posted January 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: Worst record in his 15 years was 7-9 with some historically bad defenses. I get that he’s no Josh McDaniels but if you really want to dig into the resume there’s a lot more good than bad. The cost in a trade is the only reason I’m hesitant. What makes Payton's w/l record somewhat suspect to me is it aligned perfectly with Drew Brees. From the 1st game of their debut the pair posted top 10 offenses every year, many top 5 and a few #1's. Payton coached 1 year after Drew retired and the offense dropped like a stone to the worst performance in Payton's history. I doubt that's a coincidence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 35 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said: I get that he’s no Josh McDaniels Lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 In this same thread we had multiple posts trying to say that Nathaniel Hackett wasn’t really a problem and that he needed a 2nd year. So it’s kinda hard to take the posts with a lot of credibility here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broncos_fan _from _uk Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 1 hour ago, Broncofan said: In this same thread we had multiple posts trying to say that Nathaniel Hackett wasn’t really a problem and that he needed a 2nd year. So it’s kinda hard to take the posts with a lot of credibility here. Just went through this entire thread. Where did you see that? I saw it a bit early on in the season but none here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted January 21, 2023 Share Posted January 21, 2023 16 minutes ago, broncos_fan _from _uk said: Just went through this entire thread. Where did you see that? I saw it a bit early on in the season but none here I remember seeing that early on but around December that sentiment seemed to disappear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.