jpaulthe1st Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, NYRaider said: I'm just genuinely curious as to how we did Carr dirty in your opinion? Anybody who thinks the Raiders “did Carr dirty” simply doesn’t understand the business world in general so it’s a lost cause to try and convince them otherwise. Edited January 26, 2023 by jpaulthe1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 I honestly think if we get anything for Carr then Ziegler deserves a freakin raise. Though it doesn’t escape me that he’s a big reason that Carr has an NTC and guaranteed money coming a month before the season starts too… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 10 minutes ago, jpaulthe1st said: Anybody who thinks the Raiders “did Carr dirty” simply don’t understand the business world in general so it’s a lost cause to try and convince them otherwise. Agreed. The decision to bench Carr wasn't because JMD has a personal vendetta against him, we were eliminated from playoff contention and it was literally 100% risk/0% reward playing him with how his contract is structured. The new regime didn't have to give Carr long term security but they did and they gave him the NTC. They just understand that they're not going to win at a high level with him and there jobs are on the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 1 minute ago, 101Raider said: I honestly think if we get anything for Carr then Ziegler deserves a freakin raise. Though it doesn’t escape me that he’s a big reason that Carr has an NTC and guaranteed money coming a month before the season starts too… Carr's contract is structured so weird but to me it's evidence that they really weren't planning to move on from him after this season. I think if Carr would've kept his emotions in check there's a good chance he'd be coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucksavage1 Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 25, 2023 Share Posted January 25, 2023 We could use a speedy WR to play on the opposite side of DA. Some guys I like: Darius Slayton DJ Chark Mecole Hardman Nelson Agholor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101Raider Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 41 minutes ago, NYRaider said: Carr's contract is structured so weird but to me it's evidence that they really weren't planning to move on from him after this season. I think if Carr would've kept his emotions in check there's a good chance he'd be coming back. I agree with all of this. Weird contract, but definitely show that Carr was in the long-term plans. Hondo's article did a great job explaining how it all went south. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 18 minutes ago, 101Raider said: I agree with all of this. Weird contract, but definitely show that Carr was in the long-term plans. Hondo's article did a great job explaining how it all went south. It's really not ideal for DZ or JMD to have to find a new quarterback this offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 8 hours ago, Jerry said: Again, if I were DC I wouldn't sign off on any trades. I would just standby until I was cut and then sign with the team of my choice. He can either choose the highest bidding team or the team most likely to take him to the SB (SF on a team friendly deal maybe?). Either way, only one way to find out what happens and that's to watch everything play out. Hopefully we get some updates on DC soon. I think SF for 15mil and 'freedom' (no tag clause) is what I'd do. Win a SB and get bid on. There's zero interest in helping the Raiders. The fans are fans and he's not screwing us over just the management/ownership that he's at ends with. He also might throw a wrench into Brady's plan by signing ASAP that cheap for SF because that takes 1 stop off the table for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 8 minutes ago, G said: I think SF for 15mil and 'freedom' (no tag clause) is what I'd do. Win a SB and get bid on. There's zero interest in helping the Raiders. The fans are fans and he's not screwing us over just the management/ownership that he's at ends with. He also might throw a wrench into Brady's plan by signing ASAP that cheap for SF because that takes 1 stop off the table for him. Why would the 49ers want Derek Carr when they already have Lance and Purdy for significantly cheaper? Carr working with the team to facilitate a trade isn't even about helping the Raiders, it's about securing $40M GTD and ideally being able to see his entire 3 yr/$121M contract. But in your opinion it would be smarter to sacrifice $25M next season in hopes that he can play well enough to earn a bigger deal via free agency that would make him one of the top 5 highest paid players in the league. I'm not sure the opinions of NFL executives are going to be swayed towards thinking Carr is now some elite player at age 32 when there's a 9 year sample size of him being average to above average, but that's just me. I'm not sure why he'd be at odds with the management/ownership. The team didn't have to extend him last offseason but gave him a pay raise, long term security, and the ability to choose his next destination if things didn't work out. He has signed deals worth roughly $250M during his 9 years here and has 0 playoff wins and has lost more games than any QB in the league during that stretch. When he signed that deal it was clearly a prove it deal, the new regime told him if he can play at an elite level then they had no problem paying him at an elite level, but if he came up short then the team would be able to move on and allow Carr to get paid elsewhere. You guys act like Carr was just some elite, unstoppable force and the team screwed him over. He got benched when the playoffs were out of reach and we decided to move on because he was bad this season despite having two All-Pro players to lean on. I don't think I've ever seen anyone be as dramatic as Carr and his cult about a team deciding to move on after nearly a decade of mediocrity. If we had good management Carr would've been gone a long time ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 14 hours ago, jpaulthe1st said: Anybody who thinks the Raiders “did Carr dirty” simply doesn’t understand the business world in general so it’s a lost cause to try and convince them otherwise. I think most fans especially people who aren’t Raider fans view it as dirty because of how much Carr did for the organization. For a decade the Raiders trotted out guys like Russell, Walter, Pryor, Palmers corpse. Then they draft Carr who makes them relevant a few years. Then in 2021 his #1 WR kills someone and in head coach resigns in disgrace. His #1 WR is hunter renfrow because his TE is injured. His OC is Greg Olson and still he gets them to the playoffs. He rewrote record books. And he gets benched unceremoniously with playoffs still possible. I think another thing about it is no team has ever done anything like that before, benching someone so that they don’t have to pay them next season. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
true2form Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, Chali21 said: I think most fans especially people who aren’t Raider fans view it as dirty because of how much Carr did for the organization. For a decade the Raiders trotted out guys like Russell, Walter, Pryor, Palmers corpse. Then they draft Carr who makes them relevant a few years. Then in 2021 his #1 WR kills someone and in head coach resigns in disgrace. His #1 WR is hunter renfrow because his TE is injured. His OC is Greg Olson and still he gets them to the playoffs. He rewrote record books. And he gets benched unceremoniously with playoffs still possible. I think another thing about it is no team has ever done anything like that before, benching someone so that they don’t have to pay them next season. This. It's not about who is right or wrong about Carr. It's about things that have never happened before in any similar situation. You can say the Raiders were "smart", but that doesn't change the perception. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Chali21 said: I think most fans especially people who aren’t Raider fans view it as dirty because of how much Carr did for the organization. For a decade the Raiders trotted out guys like Russell, Walter, Pryor, Palmers corpse. Then they draft Carr who makes them relevant a few years. Then in 2021 his #1 WR kills someone and in head coach resigns in disgrace. His #1 WR is hunter renfrow because his TE is injured. His OC is Greg Olson and still he gets them to the playoffs. He rewrote record books. And he gets benched unceremoniously with playoffs still possible. I think another thing about it is no team has ever done anything like that before, benching someone so that they don’t have to pay them next season. The whole response that you gave is subjective. Many people will point to Rich’s steady hand at interim HC, Josh Jacobs late season resurgence, or the decimated rosters that we played against down the stretch in 2021 as the key to our playoff birth. As for him breaking franchise records, he has been the starting QB for 9 years in an era known for massive passing stats. Would you expect any less? Anyhow, successful business leaders don’t pay for past performance and should always have an eye around the corner. The bottom line is that Carr was compensated to the tune of nearly $150 million during his time here so anything above and beyond that is not owed to him. He played poorly (especially down the stretch) for the vast majority of the year and the leadership team elected to move in a different direction to try and better the team. It’s nothing personal…..just business. Edited January 26, 2023 by jpaulthe1st Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chali21 Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 1 hour ago, jpaulthe1st said: The whole response that you gave is subjective. Many people will point to Rich’s steady hand at interim HC, Josh Jacobs late season resurgence, or the decimated rosters that we played against down the stretch in 2021 as the key to our playoff birth. As for him breaking franchise records, he has been the starting QB for 9 years in an era known for massive passing stats. Would you expect any less? Anyhow, successful business leaders don’t pay for past performance and should always have an eye around the corner. The bottom line is that Carr was compensated to the tune of nearly $150 million during his time here so anything above and beyond that is not owed to him. He played poorly (especially down the stretch) for the vast majority of the year and the leadership team elected to move in a different direction to try and better the team. It’s nothing personal…..just business. Well people’s feelings aren’t objective. QBs get credit for the wins and losses. Of course Carr wasn’t the sole reason they made playoffs just like he’s not the sole reason for the losses he’s accumulated as a raider but they’re laid at his feet none the less. I’m not trying to say that the Raiders didn’t do the smart thing it’s how they handled it. There wasn’t any social media posts that said “Thank you Derek.” There wasn’t any press conferences like other franchises have done for their franchise guys. I think for a lot of fans it felt very clinical and cold. I make no illusions, QBs will more often than not have an undignified end. For better or worse he’s been the QB for a decade and I think for that reason fans think he deserves more respect. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpaulthe1st Posted January 26, 2023 Share Posted January 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Chali21 said: Well people’s feelings aren’t objective. QBs get credit for the wins and losses. Of course Carr wasn’t the sole reason they made playoffs just like he’s not the sole reason for the losses he’s accumulated as a raider but they’re laid at his feet none the less. I’m not trying to say that the Raiders didn’t do the smart thing it’s how they handled it. There wasn’t any social media posts that said “Thank you Derek.” There wasn’t any press conferences like other franchises have done for their franchise guys. I think for a lot of fans it felt very clinical and cold. I make no illusions, QBs will more often than not have an undignified end. For better or worse he’s been the QB for a decade and I think for that reason fans think he deserves more respect. Fair point. Cheers @Chali21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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