What are some things the Packers could/should do in the 2023 off season?

[packfanfb]

11 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I think we're all in agreement that we shouldn't overpay Allen Lazard.  But if you can get him back on a reasonable contract (3 years, $24M is probably my max), I'm comfortable with a WR room of Lazard, Watson, Doubs, and a semi-high draft pick.

I'd have to see a lot more consistency out of Watson and Doubs in year 2, especially the latter for this to work IMO. To me, you don't need a Davante Adams, but you need something better than Lazard to pair with Watson as your top 2 if you want the offense to return to form under this version of Rodgers (or Love). I think Doubs could end up being a nice player but I think a lot of people got ahead of themselves on crowning him after a few good games. I think he's a work in progress and year 2 will be the next step towards him eventually becoming a solid all-around WR.  

Edited January 18, 2023 by packfanfb

[HokieHigh]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

I'd have to see a lot more consistency out of Watson and Doubs in year 2, especially the latter for this to work IMO. To me, you don't need a Davante Adams, but you need something better than Lazard to pair with Watson as your top 2 if you want the offense to return to form under this version of Rodgers (or Love). I think Doubs could end up being a nice player but I think a lot of people got ahead of themselves on crowning him after a few good games. I think he's a work in progress and year 2 will be the next step towards him eventually becoming a solid all-around WR.  

Everything about doubs and watsons game should mature well. Laz or another top pick, plus cobb. Room is fine.

[CWood21]

9 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

I mean, I think we're all in agreement that we shouldn't overpay Allen Lazard.  But if you can get him back on a reasonable contract (3 years, $24M is probably my max), I'm comfortable with a WR room of Lazard, Watson, Doubs, and a semi-high draft pick.

Speaking of Lazard, my offer would be something like this:

Y1: $1.08M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $4.2M cap hit ($8M dead cap)
Y2: $5.25M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $8.4M cap hit ($5.3M dead cap)
Y3: $8.25M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $11.4M cap hit ($2.67M dead cap)

 

[packfanfb]

2 minutes ago, HokieHigh said:

Everything about doubs and watsons game should mature well. Laz or another top pick, plus cobb. Room is fine.

"Should" being the key word though. It depends on the "goal" for this season coming up. If this is another attempt at "all in" with Rodgers back, etc., I don't see how any GM could rest on having a WR room led by two second year players. Just too much uncertainty there. Adams is a WR God and he was borderline terrible in his 2nd year in the league. We have no idea where Doubs is going to be at. A lot of risk there and adding a draft pick probably won't move the needle, especially with 12 at QB. 

Now, if the Packers choose to go with Love in 2023, thus likely scaling back the expectations in his first year as a starter, then the argument to simply go young at multiple positions, including WR makes more sense. 

[wgbeethree]

You guys really need to look at the actual contracts WRs are getting.

Last year Tim Patrick, Russell Gage, DJ Chark, and Nelson Agloghor got between $10-11 million per. I'd be SHOCKED if Lazard doesn't get at least close to that.

[AlexGreen#20]

8 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Speaking of Lazard, my offer would be something like this:

Y1: $1.08M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $4.2M cap hit ($8M dead cap)
Y2: $5.25M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $8.4M cap hit ($5.3M dead cap)
Y3: $8.25M base salary, $2.67M signing bonus, 500k workout bonus = $11.4M cap hit ($2.67M dead cap)

 

The 10 Million AAV club is Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Tim Patrick, DJ Chark, Russel Gage, and MVS

You think Lazard doesn't make that?

[packfanfb]

4 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

You guys really need to look at the actual contracts WRs are getting.

Last year Tim Patrick, Russell Gage, DJ Chark, and Nelson Agloghor got between $10-11 million per. I'd be SHOCKED if Lazard doesn't get at least close to that.

Oh so would I, which is why I don't even pick up the phone if I'm GB. Thank Lazard for his time, but he's 100% gone in my mind. 

[Packerraymond]

Just now, packfanfb said:

Oh so would I, which is why I don't even pick up the phone if I'm GB. Thank Lazard for his time, but he's 100% gone in my mind. 

So who replaces him? You want 2 rookies +Watson, Doubs, Toure and Melton?

The trade market isn't there this year, Brandon Cooks is probably the best option and Lazard is the best or one of the best FA WR. 

[packfanfb]

7 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

So who replaces him? You want 2 rookies +Watson, Doubs, Toure and Melton?

The trade market isn't there this year, Brandon Cooks is probably the best option and Lazard is the best or one of the best FA WR. 

You have to chose the direction you want to go. You can't settle in the middle. In 2022, after trading Adams, Gute settled. He thought, unbelievably, that Cobb, Watkins and Lazard were a good enough veteran core and then prayed that we could win enough games early on to allow Watson or Doubs time to improve. Except by the time Watson came around, we were basically 4-8 or whatever. Gute could have been much more aggressive and used the Adams compensation on a guy like A.J. Brown or a similar move. He didn't, and that's fine, but it contributed to a 8-9 season (as well as several other factors including 12, MLF, etc.). 

So for 2023, he can't "settle" in the middle. He either needs to do something drastic and make a splash at WR (or even TE - a pass catcher), so go completely the opposite way and just roll with the young guys. To me, that decision is likely tied to who is playing QB. If Rodgers comes back and the WR room is something like Watson, Doubs, Lazard...I'll be expecting a similar type of season as we just watched even with the assumed improvement from the 2nd year guys. 

Edited January 18, 2023 by packfanfb

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

You have to chose the direction you want to go. You can't settle in the middle. In 2022, after trading Adams, Gute settled. He thought, unbelievably, that Cobb, Watkins and Lazard were a good enough veteran core and then prayed that we could win enough games early on to allow Watson or Doubs time to improve. Except by the time Watson came around, we were basically 4-8 or whatever. Gute could have been much more aggressive and used the Adams compensation on a guy like A.J. Brown or a similar move. He didn't, and that's fine, but it contributed to a 8-9 season (as well as several other factors including 12, MLF, etc.). 

So for 2023, he can't "settle" in the middle. He either needs to do something drastic and make a splash at WR (or even TE - a pass catcher), so go completely the opposite way and just roll with the young guys. To me, that decision is likely tied to who is playing QB. If Rodgers comes back and the WR room is something like Watson, Doubs, Lazard...I'll be expecting a similar type of season as we just watched even with the assumed improvement from the 2nd year guys. 

How many snaps did Watson, Lazard, Doubs and Cobb play together in 2022? I'd argue if you take out Watson and had AJ Brown, Lazard, Doubs and Cobb in 2022 and they played the same amount of snaps together, we'd probably have been 8-9.

I agree with your assessment of next year, either trade that 1st or 2nd and be overly aggressive with Rodgers back, or just roll young and trade Aaron.

[packfanfb]

1 minute ago, Packerraymond said:

How many snaps did Watson, Lazard, Doubs and Cobb play together in 2022? I'd argue if you take out Watson and had AJ Brown, Lazard, Doubs and Cobb in 2022 and they played the same amount of snaps together, we'd probably have been 8-9.

I agree with your assessment of next year, either trade that 1st or 2nd and be overly aggressive with Rodgers back, or just roll young and trade Aaron.

I just think 2022 was a litmus test that undeniably proved that 12 needs better talent at WR. And we can sit here and argue all day long whether he's overpaid and whether he should be able to elevate lesser talent, blah blah. I get it and frankly, I agree, but that's not what happened. Losing Adams killed us in 2022. You can easily find 3-4 games we lost this season that we highly likely would have won with Adams because he would have the made the difference on one or two of those drives that stalled and we ended up losing by 7 or fewer points. That's just the reality of the situation. 

If 12 is the QB in 2023 and you are serious about trying to win a championship, you need to go get him an upper tier guy. Simple as that. If you don't, I'm not sure what anyone here actually expects to happen other than something similar to what we saw this season. This is actually one of the major reasons why I'm ready for Love because I don't expect Gute to make such a move. Let's just move on. 

[Packerraymond]

1 minute ago, packfanfb said:

I just think 2022 was a litmus test that undeniably proved that 12 needs better talent at WR. And we can sit here and argue all day long whether he's overpaid and whether he should be able to elevate lesser talent, blah blah. I get it and frankly, I agree, but that's not what happened. Losing Adams killed us in 2022. You can easily find 3-4 games we lost this season that we highly likely would have won with Adams because he would have the made the difference on one or two of those drives that stalled and we ended up losing by 7 or fewer points. That's just the reality of the situation. 

If 12 is the QB in 2023 and you are serious about trying to win a championship, you need to go get him an upper tier guy. Simple as that. If you don't, I'm not sure what anyone here actually expects to happen other than something similar to what we saw this season. This is actually one of the major reasons why I'm ready for Love because I don't expect Gute to make such a move. Let's just move on. 

12 needs WR talent because 12 decided after 2019 he didn't like the new offense and wanted Mac's offense back in. We all know it's an iso based system, and the LaFleur offense is not. We won't need that same skill group when Love takes over, so long as LaFleur is not the lemon of the Shanny tree.

[15412]

The FO needs to focus on the team, not on one player even if his name is Lord Rodgers.  A great QB can make any system work.  Hopefully the FO can move his majesty while capturing a little value in return and begin addressing our cap woes.

Done right, they can do just that and still remain competitive.  AT least at the level we were this year!

[spilltray]

I like Lazard as a guy in the room but there isn't the cap space to pay him a market contract. 

Cobb is fine for dirt cheap like 3-4 mil, but he's really just there to be the vet. You can't count on him being healthy and he doesn't really have much in the tank either.

Lewis is fine as a TE in your group, but he's definitely primarily a blocking specialist.

 

Yes I think it's time for a youth movement. Add 2 more guys this year and maybe next year too. Don't overspend on vets.

[packfanfb]

21 minutes ago, Packerraymond said:

12 needs WR talent because 12 decided after 2019 he didn't like the new offense and wanted Mac's offense back in. We all know it's an iso based system, and the LaFleur offense is not. We won't need that same skill group when Love takes over, so long as LaFleur is not the lemon of the Shanny tree.

Again, we can all come up with the excuses. Whether the problem is 12, MLF, Gute, whatever the reasoning is aside, there IS a problem. You either accept that and address it or get rid of 12. Otherwise, what are we doing, waiting for Rodgers to change his stripes? Good luck.