biggie. Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) On 3/2/2023 at 9:43 PM, Greene N White said: 16 game averages: Player A: Has Played 5 Seasons 62.5% Completion 3822 Passing Yards 641 Rushing Yards 37 Total TDs 12 INT Player B: Has played 4 seasons 66.8% Completion 3866 Passing Yards 619 Rushing Yards 30 Total TDs 11 INT Player A is Josh Allen, Player B is Kyler Murray. Obviously I'm taking Josh over him as their careers have taken a different path. But the guy can play football. Except Allen has gotten better each year and is a mature adult who takes his job seriously. Edited March 4, 2023 by biggie. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 25 minutes ago, Greene N White said: 16 game averages: Player A: Has Played 5 Seasons 62.5% Completion 3822 Passing Yards 641 Rushing Yards 37 Total TDs 12 INT Player B: Has played 4 seasons 66.8% Completion 3866 Passing Yards 619 Rushing Yards 30 Total TDs 11 INT Player A is Josh Allen, Player B is Kyler Murray. Obviously I'm taking Josh over him as their careers have taken a different path. But the guy can play football. People need to stop using Josh Allen's start to his career to justify why other guys need to be given more of a chance. Josh Allen had an absolutely unprecedented developmental leap as a QB. I legitimately do not think another QB in NFL history has improved in the way Josh Allen did from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. If Kyler Murray was developing like Josh Allen did, nobody would question him. Statistically Josh Allen basically went from Zach Wilson to Mac Jones to Patrick Mahomes in a 3 year span. That is not what Kyler Murray has done or will do. People doubt Murray because he just had the worst season of his career. He did not keep improving. Now he's also coming off of an injury, and if we're being honest about the Cardinals cap situation, is probably going to have less talent around him when he returns. Trajectory matters as context in a situation like this. This is like in the 2000s when people kept trying to defend their crappy young QBs by comparing them to Peyton Manning. Like, it doesn't matter that Joey Harrington threw 22 INTs, Peyton threw 28 and look at him! You're pointing to unicorns and saying your horse might turn out like that. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notthatbluestuff Posted March 2, 2023 Author Share Posted March 2, 2023 Jonathan Gannon always makes good QBs look great, so this should be good for Kyler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Kyler now has the benefit of his former GM no longer being able to sabotage his own team. It’s really now all on him to improve & reach that elite level he has before, but consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greene N White Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 5 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: People need to stop using Josh Allen's start to his career to justify why other guys need to be given more of a chance. Josh Allen had an absolutely unprecedented developmental leap as a QB. I legitimately do not think another QB in NFL history has improved in the way Josh Allen did from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. If Kyler Murray was developing like Josh Allen did, nobody would question him. Statistically Josh Allen basically went from Zach Wilson to Mac Jones to Patrick Mahomes in a 3 year span. That is not what Kyler Murray has done or will do. People doubt Murray because he just had the worst season of his career. He did not keep improving. Now he's also coming off of an injury, and if we're being honest about the Cardinals cap situation, is probably going to have less talent around him when he returns. Trajectory matters as context in a situation like this. This is like in the 2000s when people kept trying to defend their crappy young QBs by comparing them to Peyton Manning. Like, it doesn't matter that Joey Harrington threw 22 INTs, Peyton threw 28 and look at him! You're pointing to unicorns and saying your horse might turn out like that. I used Josh Allen strictly because he's a runner so the statistics made more sense as well as the fact that he has been in the league around the same amount of years as Kyler. I wasn't using a 1 year rookie season as a sample size. Would you rather me have used Joe Burrow? You'd be surprised at the results. Kyler was on pace for 4025 passing, 711 rushing, 29 total td and then he tore his acl. He was missing hollywood and Hopkins for the majority of that time too. He really wasn't having a bad season his defense just couldn't stop a nosebleed. He would've finished borderline top 5 in both total yards and TDs if he didn't get hurt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 yet another QB who peaked for almost one season and probably never replicates that success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 (edited) On 3/2/2023 at 3:26 PM, Jakuvious said: Josh Allen had an absolutely unprecedented developmental leap as a QB. I legitimately do not think another QB in NFL history has improved in the way Josh Allen did from year 1 to year 2 to year 3. Jalen Hurts made that leap too. Both had accuracy, footwork and mechanical issues as well as people questioning thier ability to read NFL defenses. I am NOT comparing thier Arm Talent but the overall growth year 1, 2 and 3 as a QB. Not many QB have Josh Allen's arm talent. The biggest question marks for Kyler is his work ethic and leadership. Both have already been in question. The talent is there but Talent only takes you so far. You actually have to put in the work and strive to get better each and every year. Not just with Call of Duty. Edited March 4, 2023 by Nabbs4u Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 6 minutes ago, Greene N White said: I used Josh Allen strictly because he's a runner so the statistics made more sense as well as the fact that he has been in the league around the same amount of years as Kyler. I wasn't using a 1 year rookie season as a sample size. Would you rather me have used Joe Burrow? You'd be surprised at the results. Kyler was on pace for 4025 passing, 711 rushing, 29 total td and then he tore his acl. He was missing hollywood and Hopkins for the majority of that time too. He really wasn't having a bad season his defense just couldn't stop a nosebleed. He would've finished borderline top 5 in both total yards and TDs if he didn't get hurt. The point is, Josh Allen over the past 3 years averages over 5000 yards of offense and over 40 total TDs per season. Kyler Murray, at his absolute best, has been nowhere near that. Your on pace numbers there for Murray this year would still have been 400 yards and 13 TDs short of what Josh Allen did this year. You're using the years where Josh Allen was not yet Josh Allen to drag down his averages to make it look as if that comparison has any merit whatsoever. It does not. Additionally, he was also on pace for 12 INTs, 14 fumbles, 43 sacks, a 5-12 record, a whopping 6.1 yards per pass attempt. The bulk does not tell the whole story. Mistakes and efficiency matter as well. And no, trying to compare him to another MVP candidate is not going to help. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Greene N White said: That's kind of just how QB contracts work tho. Whoever is the top guy up for an extension at the time inks the highest deal and then by the end of it it somewhat looks like a bargain. By the end of Kyler's contract he might not even be in the top 10. It's not the best contract obviously but I don't think it's as bad as you're making it out to be imo. I’m aware that’s how it looks. I wholeheartedly disagree with your statement that half the teams in the league would want him. No they wouldn’t with his contract. Look at how hard of a time they had to find a coach, that says it all. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 Good. Not elite. Probably not even great. Somewhere around Derek Carr and Dak Prescott level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 1 minute ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Good. Not elite. Probably not even great. Somewhere around Derek Carr and Dak Prescott level. I'd take Prescott over Murray and if he were younger probably Derek Carr too. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClutchDJ Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 8 minutes ago, MWil23 said: Look at how hard of a time they had to find a coach, that says it all. You don’t think any of that has to do with the owner? Especially after that team survey that just came out yesterday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SodeeWater_Cheezburger Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 7 minutes ago, NudeTayne said: I'd take Prescott over Murray and if he were younger probably Derek Carr too. Yeah, me too. That's why I was thinking he was maybe somewhere between the two of them if you take Carr's age into consideration. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NudeTayne Posted March 2, 2023 Share Posted March 2, 2023 24 minutes ago, SodeeWater_Cheezburger said: Yeah, me too. That's why I was thinking he was maybe somewhere between the two of them if you take Carr's age into consideration. Also, Daniel Jones about to be paid close to Kyler. The world is getting weird. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 3, 2023 Share Posted March 3, 2023 Through the first 7 weeks last year Kyler looked like he was on an MVP trajectory (was on pace for 5,100 yards / 48 TD) and now he's viewed so poorly by almost everyone. It's crazy how things change in the NFL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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