2023 Player movement rumors

[Cypher]

3 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I have questions about Lamar, but that list is absurd lol. Jimmy G? Geno Smith? Cousins? Brissett, Wentz, and Heinicke? MILLS?!? MIKE WHITE?!?!?!

Granted it's one year, but I do think there's a valid argument to Geno being a better passer. Cousins, too.

[BroncoSojia]

4 minutes ago, Cypher said:

Granted it's one year, but I do think there's a valid argument to Geno being a better passer. Cousins, too.

For Geno, it's been one year and he's playing a top 5 WR tandem. Cousins hasn't lacked for weapons either.

[Trojan]

4 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Let's see Davis Mills with a top tier OL and weapons that aren't a bunch of UDFA/late rounders.

Even then, cool? A highlight reel, how persuasive. Take away 1 of the 25, I guess? 

Lol

It's a highlight reel of him literally only making passes from the pocket, which is what you are discussing lol. The plays it's high lighting are pocket passes, not high lights in the best plays sense. It crops out the plays he's known for and MVP and a huge part of his game.

Edited February 23, 2023 by Trojan

[ronjon1990]

Claim: Lamar Jackson with Mac Jones' legs is still a top 20 passer. 

Counterclaim: Lamar Jackson is barely even a top 20 passer right now. 

Counter counterclaim: Name them

Counter counter counterclaim: Here's at least 25

Response(s): *picks 4 or 5 of the most marginal options* "ABSURDITY! DO YOU EVEN WATCH FOOTBALL!?"

Can't make up the knob slobbing. Even if one's best argument is Lamar Jackson is better than some fringe starters and career backup types, they're only furthering the point he's not really a very good passer. 😂

[BetterCallSaul]

Lamar is awful against man coverage. The reason he sees so much zone is because he can run like the wind. It’s how their TEs feast. Find a zone, sit down, catch the ball. Eyes are on Lamar…defenders are terrified of him taking off.

If he had Mac Jones’ legs, teams would man up his receivers and he would be paralyzed. 

[Soko]

58 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Claim: Lamar Jackson with Mac Jones' legs is still a top 20 passer. 

Counterclaim: Lamar Jackson is barely even a top 20 passer right now. 

Counter counterclaim: Name them

Counter counter counterclaim: Here's at least 25

Response(s): *picks 4 or 5 of the most marginal options* "ABSURDITY! DO YOU EVEN WATCH FOOTBALL!?"

Can't make up the knob slobbing. Even if one's best argument is Lamar Jackson is better than some fringe starters and career backup types, they're only furthering the point he's not really a very good passer. 😂

[43M]

Lamar is a good QB, but I agree he has likely peaked as a passer.   Not to say he cant be an effective passer ans very good overall QB going forward....but as always, the thing that seperates the good QBs from the great ones is CONSISTENCY.   

Lamar wants to be paid like a great QB, and I just dont see it.    He is a human highlight reel and can make some great things happen....but for a guy looking for a fully guaranteed $50m per year contract....my comfort level is low.

And before anyone labels me as a hater....all Im saying is I don't think he is worth the contract he wants.     If he gets the deal and proves me wrong, I will happily eat my crow.

But since his MVP year, I have seen more REgression than PROgression, and thats very concerning IMO.   

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, BetterCallSaul said:

Lamar is awful against man coverage. The reason he sees so much zone is because he can run like the wind. It’s how their TEs feast. Find a zone, sit down, catch the ball. Eyes are on Lamar…defenders are terrified of him taking off.

If he had Mac Jones’ legs, teams would man up his receivers and he would be paralyzed. 

Teams with bad receivers tend to be bad against man coverage.

[NudeTayne]

1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

Teams with bad receivers tend to be bad against man coverage.

I honestly can't really tell either way at the moment, as the receivers could be good, could be an underrated group. A high-level pocket guy might do a lot with Bateman, Andrews, Likely, Duvernay et al. I agree that one more guy could really make it a formidable group but not so sure it's the receivers and not some of the Lamar style holding the offense back.

[seminoles1]

4 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

I honestly can't really tell either way at the moment, as the receivers could be good, could be an underrated group. A high-level pocket guy might do a lot with Bateman, Andrews, Likely, Duvernay et al. I agree that one more guy could really make it a formidable group but not so sure it's the receivers and not some of the Lamar style holding the offense back.

You haven't watched enough of the Ravens if that's your takeaway of that receiver group. Andrews is great. The rest? Bottom 5 group in the league.

[BetterCallSaul]

6 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Teams with bad receivers tend to be bad against man coverage.

True. But Andrews is elite and he struggles in man too. Mainly because it forces a tighter throw. I am 100% convinced the way to stop Lamar is to load up on the run early with run blitzes. Then play cover 0 and force him to throw into contested windows.

Too many teams muddle their rush and play zone. Andrews waddles into a hole and Lamar throws into a gaping hole within the defense. I feel that’s the reason he has succeeded as a passer at times. You gotta make him be pinpoint accurate. Lamar is actually pretty good at throwing dimes deep down the field. But he’s atrocious in the short and intermediate throws. 

[seminoles1]

12 minutes ago, BetterCallSaul said:

True. But Andrews is elite and he struggles in man too. Mainly because it forces a tighter throw. I am 100% convinced the way to stop Lamar is to load up on the run early with run blitzes. Then play cover 0 and force him to throw into contested windows.

Too many teams muddle their rush and play zone. Andrews waddles into a hole and Lamar throws into a gaping hole within the defense. I feel that’s the reason he has succeeded as a passer at times. You gotta make him be pinpoint accurate. Lamar is actually pretty good at throwing dimes deep down the field. But he’s atrocious in the short and intermediate throws. 

Didn't Lamar dominate against the blitz last season before he got hurt?

[BetterCallSaul]

52 minutes ago, seminoles1 said:

Didn't Lamar dominate against the blitz last season before he got hurt?

Zone.

[CP3MVP]

22 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Lamar is barely a top 20 passer with his own legs, dude. 

Since his MVP year, he's like 22nd, 24th, and 27th in pass yards and  12th, 24th, and 17th in pass TDs. 

And if your excuse is he was injured...well, he maybe he should trade legs with Mac Jones and prove me wrong? Durability is, after all, one of the biggest criticisms of his play style. 

People still think is 2019 for some reason(and they got blown out at home in the playoffs) lol

[ronjon1990]

30 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

People still think is 2019 for some reason(and they got blown out at home in the playoffs) lol

Crazy to me how long he's been able to ride that wave despite the vastly diminished results amd the rise of easily about half a dozen better QBs drafted since that season. 

7 hours ago, NudeTayne said:

I honestly can't really tell either way at the moment, as the receivers could be good, could be an underrated group. A high-level pocket guy might do a lot with Bateman, Andrews, Likely, Duvernay et al. I agree that one more guy could really make it a formidable group but not so sure it's the receivers and not some of the Lamar style holding the offense back.

All I need to know about their WR corps is that I've seen less heralded QBs have similar or better success in similar circumstances and the Ravens backup QBs are absolutely poor man's versions of Lamar Jackson- tells me the offense they put in place was heavily tailored to fit Lamar Jackson, not vice versa, as you can't run a heavily tailored offense just when your starting QB is in only to drop the gimmick and run something entirely different when his annual injury occurs and have any hope of success....and Baltimore certainly hasn't gone into either of the last two years with low expectations. 

To me, the evidence indicates that while Lamar might not be holding the offense back, per se, it's so heavily tailored to him being the best of his skill set that once he's not on the field or playing at 100%, it's just not very good anymore and the results reflect as much. At best, it's too heavily dependent on Lamar being prime Lamar- and that's not going to get you very far for very long, I don't imagine. 

It's a bargain, because the one time in his career he lasted a season AND was on fire, it was pretty damn impressive. But I don't think the Ravens are getting a great deal out of it, given that he's not come close to repeating that. They've clearly set him up to be a star, not the other way around, and his limitations as a QB are the reason it hasn't materialized more than anything else.