2.58 - TE Luke Schoonmaker - Michigan

[Dallas94Ware]

21 minutes ago, JohnChimpo said:

Can you elaborate? Schoonmaker ran a faster time in every drill except short shuttle, where he was .02 slower. He ran a 4.63 40. Hendershot ran a 4.8.

Trying to link an image from imgdb but it isn't working for me. However I'll explain what I was saying -

On TheScore they ranked TE they created a percentile metric combing both combine performance and on field metrics (speed of route, highest speed while running, athletic broken tackles) and listed the percentiles. Using only college numbers, by the way. 

Kittle was at 83.7%. Hendershot? 79.1%. 

Under that? Schoonmacker at 72.4

I get that people seem to correlate underwear Olympics numbers to how well someone plays football, or how fast or athletic someone is with pads on. But I do not. That .2 difference on their 40 time means little to me - when the pads come on, Hendershot shown both in college and his limited chances in the NFL that he is deceptively elusive and fast. Where as Schoonmacker might have been two-tenths of a second faster in the combine, when the pads come on, he looks and performed no different than pretty much any TE prospect you could compare him with. 

And those two tenths of a second could literally be trained on. It doesn't effect how fast you are on the field. Just how refined and perfected your technique was for a short sprint.

[Dallas94Ware]

29 minutes ago, matt79511 said:

This is what I’m trying to do to rationalize the pick. Maybe at 25, he’s already a Year 3, Year 4 Schultz level player out of the gate? Probably reaching here, but that’s exactly who he looks like on tape.

Still looks like a bad pick, definitely the  main reason our draft is being graded so poorly. I understand why this team felt it was a priority to replace Schultz though. Dak loves his TEs

They could have replaced Schultz later in the draft and gotten a very similar prospect, or earlier and gotten a better one. Or signed some veteran and let Hendershot and Ferguson have their chance to come through. Both have just as much "upside" as Schoonmacker, if not even more.

[Dallas94Ware]

@JohnChimpo

To clarify a bit more too - sorry if it sounded like I look down on combine numbers or people who care about them. Came out wrong.

I do feel the combine has a place. When you weigh someone's numbers like, Chris Johnson's 4.24, vs the average back at like 4.5ish, that COULD be all in the training. But when you see how fast CJ2K played in college, well the combine now allows you to put a numerical value to it - even if that numberical value can easily be duped, skewed, etc. 

I'm an X and O guy, having played and coached and scouted and coached some more. So the proverbial film matters more to me. But when you see some of these numbers and apply them to what you see on the film, it helps equate things with a number. Two tenths of a second really is...I mean that's a shorter amount of time than it takes to swat a fly. That's not a huge difference. But when combined with what you see, it helps scouts and coaches apply mathematics to what they see.

It's not a tell tale, but it does have a place.

But take it from me, who ran an awful 40 and was never invited to the combine, but doubled as a secondary Tight End because I definitely could, with the pads on, make my weight at RT seem irrelevant with how fast I could still cross the field or get up the seam. I just never put in the work to refine my technique enough on a track to run a 40 time that showed what I can do as a football player.

To turn it back to Schoonmacker...his film is consistent all across the board. He can run, catch and block all to equal efficiency. But not at a level that, to me, justifies him being taken just outside of the top 50. If you justify it with a decent 40 time, IMO, you are ignoring the more relevant part of the equation: what he has done on the football field with defenders in his path and pads on every part of his body. 

It's not a bad pick. It's just a questionable strategy when you think about all of the potential game changing players with elite upside that they passed on to take him. It was almost like they drafted on need rather than talent. And that almost never goes well.

[D82]

After reading more about this kid and watching some film cuts...I don't dislike this pick as much as I used. I still hate it, but it's not a strong hate. Still think we could have went elsewhere and gotten a better player but...eh. 

[Rtnldave]

I'm just very curious/ cautiously optimistic about our offense. What I am looking forward to:

1. How will our O line look? 

Will Steele come back and be a solid player?

How will Tyler Smith look in his 2nd year?

Will Biadiz take the next step an be dominant at C?

Any of the back ups stepping up, ie Farniok?

2. How will TE by commit work with Prescott?

With 3 young TEs to work with,  will Prescott be able to utilize their skill or will he marry himself to one ie Schultz?

3. RB by commit.

Will Pollard come back strong?

Davis, and the FA we picked up (sorry, forgot his name) how will they be used.

My favorite selection, Vaughn. How many touches a game? How will he be used? Short yardage? 1st downs? Screens? 

A lot going on here.

My biggest concern is this. With so much new talent, can Prescott spread the ball around and not become predictable or indecisive?

But I do like the options this youth infusion brings to the offense.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

On 4/30/2023 at 12:14 PM, Dallas94Ware said:

Let Hendershot and Ferguson have their chance to come through. Both have just as much "upside" as Schoonmacker, if not even more.

I think Schoonmaker has more potential, but I thought it was close enough that it wasn’t worth spending a 2nd round pick.

Dallas clearly disagrees. We’ll see who is right. They’ve been pretty good going against the consensus in round 1, but not so good in round 2.

 

[the lone star]

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/luke-schoonmaker/

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/peyton-hendershot/

https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/jake-ferguson/

 

Schoonmaker has the most upside of the 3, and I like the pick in the 2nd round, just that I think they would have been better off going with an OL since Tyron Smith is old and injured a lot.

[DaBoys]

I don’t buy Schoonmaker having more potential than the younger TEs on our roster. He’s definitely going to have more opportunities. Jason Witten did well with Dak, Blake Jarwin was doing well with Dak before he got hurt, Dalton Schultz obviously did okay with Dak. Whoever the starting TE is, is going to have plenty targets with Dak at QB. Ferguson would have been fine, but we just drafted a TE older than him in round 2. Makes zero sense unless he’s an athletic freak…. And he is not. 

[WizardHawk]

I don’t love the pick, but Schoon is clearly the most athletic TE on the roster by a wide margin.

[DaBoys]

27 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

I don’t love the pick, but Schoon is clearly the most athletic TE on the roster by a wide margin.

 

Which unfortunately doesn’t necessarily mean he is super athletic. The only thing he tested truly elite in was broad jump. He’s in the 95th percentile there. His next best test was being 83rd percentile in the 40 yard dash, which is respectable but not elite. He’s pretty mid or even below average in other areas, like bottom 3rd percentile in hand size, 56th percentile vert and so on. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/luke-schoonmaker
 

According the this, his spiderwebs best match is George Kittle at 83.7%. (Love that!)

Peyton Hendershot was #5 at a 79.1% match. (Not a fan of drafting a guy that is basically an athletic match in round 2.)

Edited May 8, 2023 by DaBoys

[cowboysdreamer]

Schoonmaker has been poorly ranked by these writers he is already the best TE on the roster? He's not a matador he gets his nose right in there to block not what wev'e had since Witten retired. His receiving skills are as good as the TE's we have and probably better, smooth route running .

[canadaluvsdallas]

I still think people should realistically expect Ferg to be TE1. 

Ferg was only mainly a run blocking based TE in college.

If anything we might be seeing them on the field together....alot.

I'm excited!

Edited May 10, 2023 by canadaluvsdallas

[The_Slamman]

From what I saw last year, I actually thought Hendershot played faster than Ferg.  But I thought Ferg was probably more reliable as a receiver.  But I was high on both of them.  I don't think its a given that Schoon wins the starting job.  I wouldnt be at all surprised if we play a ton of 2 TE sets.  

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

On 5/8/2023 at 2:44 PM, DaBoys said:

Which unfortunately doesn’t necessarily mean he is super athletic. The only thing he tested truly elite in was broad jump. He’s in the 95th percentile there. His next best test was being 83rd percentile in the 40 yard dash, which is respectable but not elite. He’s pretty mid or even below average in other areas, like bottom 3rd percentile in hand size, 56th percentile vert and so on. 

https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/luke-schoonmaker
 

According the this, his spiderwebs best match is George Kittle at 83.7%. (Love that!)

Peyton Hendershot was #5 at a 79.1% match. (Not a fan of drafting a guy that is basically an athletic match in round 2.)

Interesting to see the disparity from what Mockdraftable has him at, vs. RAS. For RAS, Schoonmaker 91% in the 40 and 84% short shuttle. Mockdraftable doesn’t list the 3-cone, which RAS has Schoonmaker at 98%. RAS has him at almost 99% overall athlete for TEs.

[Nextyearfordaboyz]

14 hours ago, The_Slamman said:

From what I saw last year, I actually thought Hendershot played faster than Ferg.  But I thought Ferg was probably more reliable as a receiver.  But I was high on both of them.  I don't think its a given that Schoon wins the starting job.  I wouldnt be at all surprised if we play a ton of 2 TE sets.  

I agree with this myself. But you can’t justify spending that pick on Schoonmaker if you don’t think he walks in as your best TE.