Sugashane Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 23 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: Peanut benefitted A LOT from Lovie’s defense too because it largely concealed his lack of top straight line speed. Minkah wouldn’t get that under Fangio. Minkah is a far better athlete than Peanut too though. I personally think his Combine numbers match or better Fullers'. Not elite athletically as a CB, but good enough to match up with about anyone and his intangibles are through the roof. I think he can be a solid player anywhere in the backfield, even if he never will be Ramsey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogerthat Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 Guy who need a good 40 time to solidify their draft stock Joshua Jackson - He has ideal length great ball skills but he needs to run a 4.45 and show he has the speed to match the length and ball skills. I think if he runs well the bears will strongly consider him at 8 Lamar Jackson - he needs to run like the wind. He needs to be in the low 4.4s for me. His body must also impress. He needs to look rocked out so he can hold up Calvin Ridley - He ran a 4.35 as a soph at bama's pro day. He really needs it a 40 time in the 4.3s will get him drafted in the top 10. He runs a 4.45 he is looking at mid to late 1st and maybe he slides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/7/2018 at 9:40 AM, G08 said: I'm not sure what's elite about that play? Sure, it's great he kept his head on a swivel and picked up a late blitzer. It's cool that he hit him hard enough to put him on the turf... but what about that is elite? Same end result if a LG scans, picks up the blitzer, and simply stands in front of him. The awareness is awesome and the athletic ability to actually pick up the blitzer is impressive. Dude is going to be a stud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 20 hours ago, Sugashane said: Minkah is a far better athlete than Peanut too though. I personally think his Combine numbers match or better Fullers'. Not elite athletically as a CB, but good enough to match up with about anyone and his intangibles are through the roof. I think he can be a solid player anywhere in the backfield, even if he never will be Ramsey. Hold up, say what? Peanut was a stupid uber athlete who got overlooked as one of the best cbs in the league bc of the defense he played in for YEARS. It wasnt until the defense evolved into a 2 man scheme that people took notice. Peanut was specifically drafted bc of his athleticism to match up with Moss and then he became the only cb in the league who could shut down Megatron. Fitzpatrick would have to be incredibly special to compare athletically to Peanut. Peanut was viewed coming out a lot like Ramsey, safety size with cb traits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: Hold up, say what? Peanut was a stupid uber athlete who got overlooked as one of the best cbs in the league bc of the defense he played in for YEARS. It wasnt until the defense evolved into a 2 man scheme that people took notice. Peanut was specifically drafted bc of his athleticism to match up with Moss and then he became the only cb in the league who could shut down Megatron. Fitzpatrick would have to be incredibly special to compare athletically to Peanut. Peanut was viewed coming out a lot like Ramsey, safety size with cb traits. Revisionist history it seems. Peanut was never an "uber athlete." No idea where you came up with that, it's not even remotely true. Lets look at the numbers (from http://nflsavant.com/combine.php) Test.................... Average CB Score ........... Peanut....... 40 Yard Dash..............4.47...............................4.49........ Bench Press...............14.94.............................12............. Vertical.......................36.28............................. 40............ Three Cone ................6.88.............................. 7.05......... Broad Jump.............. 121.9 ............................ 131.......... His play was talent and intelligence based, not because he was an amazing athlete. Uber athletes are guys like Megatron, Vernon Davis, Myles Garrett, Bo Jackson, Dion Sanders. Those are guys that are uber athletes. He was overlooked almost his entire career, he was a big CB with CB traits, neither of those mean he was a freakish athlete. He was skilled and instinctual, and tough as hell. But he was never a great athlete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: Revisionist history it seems. Peanut was never an "uber athlete." No idea where you came up with that, it's not even remotely true. Lets look at the numbers (from http://nflsavant.com/combine.php) Test.................... Average CB Score ........... Peanut....... 40 Yard Dash..............4.47...............................4.49........ Bench Press...............14.94.............................12............. Vertical.......................36.28............................. 40............ Three Cone ................6.88.............................. 7.05......... Broad Jump.............. 121.9 ............................ 131.......... His play was talent and intelligence based, not because he was an amazing athlete. Uber athletes are guys like Megatron, Vernon Davis, Myles Garrett, Bo Jackson, Dion Sanders. Those are guys that are uber athletes. He was overlooked almost his entire career, he was a big CB with CB traits, neither of those mean he was a freakish athlete. He was skilled and instinctual, and tough as hell. But he was never a great athlete. First look at the explosion numbers vert and broad jump thats at the very top of the scale. Those are comparable to Moss and Megatron. Yes Peanut was an exceptional athlete. Secondly you also need to realize that you are comparing numbers from now to numbers from 15 years ago. Where was Peanut amongst his peers. Go look that up, again he was a terriffic athlete he was drafted as high as he was from small school Louisana-Lafayette bc he was an exceptional athlete. This isnt exactly an unknown. He was drafted to compete with Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Superman(DH23) said: First look at the explosion numbers vert and broad jump thats at the very top of the scale. Those are comparable to Moss and Megatron. Yes Peanut was an exceptional athlete. Secondly you also need to realize that you are comparing numbers from now to numbers from 15 years ago. Where was Peanut amongst his peers. Go look that up, again he was a terriffic athlete he was drafted as high as he was from small school Louisana-Lafayette bc he was an exceptional athlete. This isnt exactly an unknown. He was drafted to compete with Moss. Exceptional and "uber-athlete" (which pretty easily equates to elite) are not one in the same, regardless of how many times you mention he was brought in to compete with Moss. All in comparison to CBs in his class 40 yard he was 12th Bench he tied for 15th Vertical jump he was 2nd Broad jump he was tied for 2nd Three cone he was 14th He was a well rounded athlete, Yes his jumping was great, but his top end speed and COD clearly aren't elite, not really even that close. He came in and played great because he was a great football player, he was skilled, tough instinctual. He was a solid athlete, but he was not an elite one at all. It is simply a fact. His numbers closely resemble Seneca Wallace, I mean come on. Wallace was a freakish QB athletically, but would you look at him and say "you're athletic enough to hang with Moss?" Tillman had plenty of athleticism to not be a liability, but his success was not due to his athleticism as much as skill and preparation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 6 hours ago, Sugashane said: Exceptional and "uber-athlete" (which pretty easily equates to elite) are not one in the same, regardless of how many times you mention he was brought in to compete with Moss. All in comparison to CBs in his class 40 yard he was 12th Bench he tied for 15th Vertical jump he was 2nd Broad jump he was tied for 2nd Three cone he was 14th He was a well rounded athlete, Yes his jumping was great, but his top end speed and COD clearly aren't elite, not really even that close. He came in and played great because he was a great football player, he was skilled, tough instinctual. He was a solid athlete, but he was not an elite one at all. It is simply a fact. His numbers closely resemble Seneca Wallace, I mean come on. Wallace was a freakish QB athletically, but would you look at him and say "you're athletic enough to hang with Moss?" Tillman had plenty of athleticism to not be a liability, but his success was not due to his athleticism as much as skill and preparation. The vert and broad are not just jumping tests, they are explosion tests. How sudden can you be? The forty is also an explosion test. Not so much about top end speed and really its as much about technique as anything else. Guys today train for weeks just to get the 40 technique down. Being 2nd among cbs in 2 explosion tests is pretty damn elite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronMike84 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Doesn’t matter if Minkah can only play safety and nickel and not full-time outside corner. As long as he tests well, somebody will like his intangibles, experience, and pedigree enough to take him in the top 15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 51 minutes ago, Superman(DH23) said: The vert and broad are not just jumping tests, they are explosion tests. How sudden can you be? The forty is also an explosion test. Not so much about top end speed and really its as much about technique as anything else. Guys today train for weeks just to get the 40 technique down. Being 2nd among cbs in 2 explosion tests is pretty damn elite. That is pretty obvious. But they literally have the word "jump" in them, and they are single max-effort movements and saying his jumping was great is still correct. Clearly they are explosion tests. The 40's first 10 yards is really what shows the most explosion, the rest is very much about their speed. If they have lower 10 yard split than another runner, and still finish at the same time, it is very likely their top end speed was higher. There were approximately 25 CBs at the Combine with him and for 2 of the tests right around the middle, disregarding bench press. So he did great on 2 drills and average at 2 others. Calling him elite in two tests I could roll with, but being split two and two doesn't make him elite to me. The two tests he excelled at he was stationary and was able to get completely set for, with no real time restriction. Also like the 40, it is very much technique-driven. The 3 cone has a stronger correlation than any of them to a CB to me (barring horrendous numbers showing a major potential deficiency). You're moving beyond a straight line, changing directions at a rapid pace, etc. It is to me the most important drill for DBs of the ones listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superman(DH23) Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 13 hours ago, Sugashane said: That is pretty obvious. But they literally have the word "jump" in them, and they are single max-effort movements and saying his jumping was great is still correct. Clearly they are explosion tests. The 40's first 10 yards is really what shows the most explosion, the rest is very much about their speed. If they have lower 10 yard split than another runner, and still finish at the same time, it is very likely their top end speed was higher. There were approximately 25 CBs at the Combine with him and for 2 of the tests right around the middle, disregarding bench press. So he did great on 2 drills and average at 2 others. Calling him elite in two tests I could roll with, but being split two and two doesn't make him elite to me. The two tests he excelled at he was stationary and was able to get completely set for, with no real time restriction. Also like the 40, it is very much technique-driven. The 3 cone has a stronger correlation than any of them to a CB to me (barring horrendous numbers showing a major potential deficiency). You're moving beyond a straight line, changing directions at a rapid pace, etc. It is to me the most important drill for DBs of the ones listed. I agree that the 3 cone is very important, and you could see the results from that in the play on the field with Peanut as well. Peanut excelled against big fast wrs who looked to separate vertically, but smaller, quick wrs who could change direction he would struggle against. But you dont even get noticed at Louisiana Lafayette unless you are an exceptional athlete, you especially dont get drafted in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 1 hour ago, Superman(DH23) said: But you dont even get noticed at Louisiana Lafayette unless you are an exceptional athlete, you especially dont get drafted in the 2nd round. I don’t think that’s true at all. A lot of FBS schools play a ton of good teams getting their players exposure to pro scouts. Louisiana-Monroe (not Tillman’s school but a comparable school) for example plays a ridiculously strong non-conference schedule every year. Since 2008 their non-conference schedule includes Auburn 5x, Alabama 2x, Ole Miss, Texas, Arizona State, Kentucky 2x, LSU 2x, Arkansas 2x, Florida State 2x, TCU, Iowa, Baylor 2x, Oklahoma 2x, Wake Forest 2x and Georgia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pigsooie5 Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Denzel Ward is starting to seem more and more like a very possible choice at 8. I think he's going to absolutely blister the combine, like top 5 40 time and 3 cone. He's going to be a better prospect on film and in underwear than Marshon Lattimore last year, despite them being identical weight and within an inch and a half of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 7 hours ago, pigsooie5 said: Denzel Ward is starting to seem more and more like a very possible choice at 8. I think he's going to absolutely blister the combine, like top 5 40 time and 3 cone. He's going to be a better prospect on film and in underwear than Marshon Lattimore last year, despite them being identical weight and within an inch and a half of each other. I don’t want Ward. But I also understand having 3 good CBS and possibly an elite 1 in Ward is a good thing and I wood Ben fine with the pick. When Prince is your 3rd best CB you are going to be a problem for offenses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: I don’t want Ward. But I also understand having 3 good CBS and possibly an elite 1 in Ward is a good thing and I wood Ben fine with the pick. When Prince is your 3rd best CB you are going to be a problem for offenses. I just haven’t heard anything stellar about Ward like I did with Lattimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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