2024 NFL Draft

[Rich7sena]

16 minutes ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

And that’s why the shotgun approach

I'm not sure I understand or what you're advocating for. I think a team that needs a quarterback should strongly consider taking a good one in the first round (ideally top of the first) rather than taking multiple prospects later in the draft because good quarterbacks tend to go in the first round and the success rate is higher in the first round. Ultimately, we know what makes a good NFL quarterback which is why most of the best NFL quarterbacks went in the first round.

[bucksavage1]

On 2/3/2024 at 1:44 PM, Humble_Beast said:

Robinson is on contract for one more year. A good DC would have a 3rd edge guy blitz and get creative Imagine that 

The #Raiders and EDGE Janarius Robinson agreed to a 1 year, 985k (638k guaranteed) contract for 2024 Robinson will be an RFA in 2025. The 3rd year pass rusher posted 1.5 sacks, 2 TFL, 3 QB hits and 9 pressures in 78 snaps last season.

[Bitty 2.0]

52 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I'm not sure I understand or what you're advocating for. I think a team that needs a quarterback should strongly consider taking a good one in the first round (ideally top of the first) rather than taking multiple prospects later in the draft because good quarterbacks tend to go in the first round and the success rate is higher in the first round. Ultimately, we know what makes a good NFL quarterback which is why most of the best NFL quarterbacks went in the first round.

Ideally yes but you can’t mortgage the future. 3 first round picks is ridiculous.

[Humble_Beast]

what will you think will happen at 13?

I really hope we don't reach on a QB ala Nix, Pennix, JJ

so what position do you think we can target 

QB- the big 3 are not leaving the top 5

RB- no RB worth 13

WR- Big 3 are likely top 10 picks - MHJ, Nabers, Rome ----- I don't see another WR worth 13. I see other late 1st rounders 

TE- Bowers- I'm starting to see Bowers mocked 10-15 more and more. Isn't a need but could you pass him up? 

T: Alt and Fashanu are top 10 locks. JC Latham might be first tackle or even there at 13. I wouldn't be mad at the pick. Fauga seems to be a mid first rounder and even starting to get mocked in the top 10. 

G/C- TROY FAUTANU - starting to get buzz in the mid rounds. Is a potential ALL Pro LG worth the 13th pick? Vegas kid

DE: Turner/ Latu / Verse - all picks would be a home run. Chop Robinson is someone who I think will blow up the combine. 

DT: I really like Murphy from Texas and a sleeper for 13. I also like Newton? Are these two more hyped because a weak DT class?

LB- no prospect worth 13

CB- Arnold stock seems to be on the rise. Kool Aid, Mitchell and Wiggins are other options. I would rather go trenches 

S- no prospect worth 13 

so many directions we can go 

[Steins Gate]

My revised QB rankings:

QB1) Drake Maye - This one was difficult for me. There are two sides to Drake. His floor is a more physically gifted Alex Smith and his ceiling is a more athletic Matt Ryan. I think he will be somewhere in between. Worthy of TOP 3.

QB2) Michael Penix - I had to knock him for a disappointing Senior Bowl. I still like him but he is closer to Jared Goff than CJ Stroud. Penix is not that good against the blitz and not very good off script. Worthy of TOP 15.

QB3) JJ McCarthy - While I like JJ's physical tools, his experience carrying an offense is lacking. I just don't see enough of it. Worthy of Late 1st.

QB4) Bo Nix - Dropped him due to poor Senior Bowl. I have said it before and will say it again. He is Derek Carr 2.0. Unfortunately, I have the sinking feeling the Raiders draft him at #13.....  Worthy of Late 1st.

QB5) Jayden Daniels - His pure passing skills are lacking. He needs his legs to keep the defense honest. I cannot rank him higher than 2nd round.

QB6) Caleb Williams - Overall the most talented QB is this draft. Unfortunately, his reported attitude issues are going to rear their ugly heads in the pros. His floor is Ryan Leaf and his ceiling is Jeff George. If the Raiders trade up to get him, I will honestly consider rooting for another team. I simply refuse to take him in the 1st round. Day 2 maybe....

[reddevil]

2 hours ago, Steins Gate said:

My revised QB rankings:

QB1) Drake Maye - This one was difficult for me. There are two sides to Drake. His floor is a more physically gifted Alex Smith and his ceiling is a more athletic Matt Ryan. I think he will be somewhere in between. Worthy of TOP 3.

QB2) Michael Penix - I had to knock him for a disappointing Senior Bowl. I still like him but he is closer to Jared Goff than CJ Stroud. Penix is not that good against the blitz and not very good off script. Worthy of TOP 15.

QB3) JJ McCarthy - While I like JJ's physical tools, his experience carrying an offense is lacking. I just don't see enough of it. Worthy of Late 1st.

QB4) Bo Nix - Dropped him due to poor Senior Bowl. I have said it before and will say it again. He is Derek Carr 2.0. Unfortunately, I have the sinking feeling the Raiders draft him at #13.....  Worthy of Late 1st.

QB5) Jayden Daniels - His pure passing skills are lacking. He needs his legs to keep the defense honest. I cannot rank him higher than 2nd round.

QB6) Caleb Williams - Overall the most talented QB is this draft. Unfortunately, his reported attitude issues are going to rear their ugly heads in the pros. His floor is Ryan Leaf and his ceiling is Jeff George. If the Raiders trade up to get him, I will honestly consider rooting for another team. I simply refuse to take him in the 1st round. Day 2 maybe....

Interesting rankings.

I’m looking forward to the combine and pro days to see how they affect the consensus view. I love the QB buzz and drama each year. And how definite people can get about their opinions. QBs are only ever elite or busts.

This is the first time in a while that we are going into it where it is the absolute priority which makes it even more intriguing 

I don’t have particularly strong views about the little cluster of guys that could be attainable for us. Nix, McCarthy and Penix all have as many traits that could convert and question marks as each other. I could see all of them and none of them turn out to be be good pros.

Which is why I’d be okay with the FO pulling the trigger on any one of them.

[ronjon1990]

2 hours ago, Steins Gate said:

My revised QB rankings:

QB1) Drake Maye - This one was difficult for me. There are two sides to Drake. His floor is a more physically gifted Alex Smith and his ceiling is a more athletic Matt Ryan. I think he will be somewhere in between. Worthy of TOP 3.

QB2) Michael Penix - I had to knock him for a disappointing Senior Bowl. I still like him but he is closer to Jared Goff than CJ Stroud. Penix is not that good against the blitz and not very good off script. Worthy of TOP 15.

QB3) JJ McCarthy - While I like JJ's physical tools, his experience carrying an offense is lacking. I just don't see enough of it. Worthy of Late 1st.

QB4) Bo Nix - Dropped him due to poor Senior Bowl. I have said it before and will say it again. He is Derek Carr 2.0. Unfortunately, I have the sinking feeling the Raiders draft him at #13.....  Worthy of Late 1st.

QB5) Jayden Daniels - His pure passing skills are lacking. He needs his legs to keep the defense honest. I cannot rank him higher than 2nd round.

QB6) Caleb Williams - Overall the most talented QB is this draft. Unfortunately, his reported attitude issues are going to rear their ugly heads in the pros. His floor is Ryan Leaf and his ceiling is Jeff George. If the Raiders trade up to get him, I will honestly consider rooting for another team. I simply refuse to take him in the 1st round. Day 2 maybe....

Good Jeff George or Bad Jeff George? 

Williams ceiling is really high, lots of untapped potential, imo. I just think he has absolutely zero shot at realizing it because of the ego and attitude. 

[Humble_Beast]

This qb class ain’t it 

[CaliforniaKid7]

4 hours ago, Steins Gate said:

My revised QB rankings:

QB1) Drake Maye - This one was difficult for me. There are two sides to Drake. His floor is a more physically gifted Alex Smith and his ceiling is a more athletic Matt Ryan. I think he will be somewhere in between. Worthy of TOP 3.

QB2) Michael Penix - I had to knock him for a disappointing Senior Bowl. I still like him but he is closer to Jared Goff than CJ Stroud. Penix is not that good against the blitz and not very good off script. Worthy of TOP 15.

QB3) JJ McCarthy - While I like JJ's physical tools, his experience carrying an offense is lacking. I just don't see enough of it. Worthy of Late 1st.

QB4) Bo Nix - Dropped him due to poor Senior Bowl. I have said it before and will say it again. He is Derek Carr 2.0. Unfortunately, I have the sinking feeling the Raiders draft him at #13.....  Worthy of Late 1st.

QB5) Jayden Daniels - His pure passing skills are lacking. He needs his legs to keep the defense honest. I cannot rank him higher than 2nd round.

QB6) Caleb Williams - Overall the most talented QB is this draft. Unfortunately, his reported attitude issues are going to rear their ugly heads in the pros. His floor is Ryan Leaf and his ceiling is Jeff George. If the Raiders trade up to get him, I will honestly consider rooting for another team. I simply refuse to take him in the 1st round. Day 2 maybe....

Holy cow man I hope the CW take is a joke...really not even worth a response but what exactly are you talking about? "Reported attitude issues?" like what? The one PFT report saying he wants ownership of a team? the nail polish? I'm interested to see where this goes lol

 

Listen to people who actually know him and have played with him and you'll get nothing but the exact opposite.

Edited February 7 by CaliforniaKid7

[Steins Gate]

2 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

Good Jeff George or Bad Jeff George? 

Williams ceiling is really high, lots of untapped potential, imo. I just think he has absolutely zero shot at realizing it because of the ego and attitude. 

Just a career projection. I liked Jeff when he was with the Raiders. But he had grown a little before he got there.

[Steins Gate]

49 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

Holy cow man I hope the CW take is a joke...really not even worth a response but what exactly are you talking about? "Reported attitude issues?" like what? The one PFT report saying he wants ownership of a team? the nail polish? I'm interested to see where this goes lol

 

Listen to people who actually know him and have played with him and you'll get nothing but the exact opposite.

If he gets with an Andy Reid type of coach (not going to happen), then maybe he does better than I project. Tell me, when has a QB with reported attitude/maturity issues ever fully realized their potential?

I can't think of many personally.

[CaliforniaKid7]

2 minutes ago, Steins Gate said:

If he gets with an Andy Reid type of coach (not going to happen), then maybe he does better than I project. Tell me, when has a QB with reported attitude/maturity issues ever fully realized their potential?

I can't think of many personally.

You think Andy Reid coaching would have prevented Leaf/George? 

I think the disconnect right now is that I don't think Caleb has "maturity" issues or "attitude" problems - I had asked you to provide examples of these issues? And are they really any different than players like Brady/Wilson/Mahomes who all show emotion on the field. 

[ronjon1990]

51 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

You think Andy Reid coaching would have prevented Leaf/George? 

I think the disconnect right now is that I don't think Caleb has "maturity" issues or "attitude" problems - I had asked you to provide examples of these issues? And are they really any different than players like Brady/Wilson/Mahomes who all show emotion on the field. 

The bolded is sort if the problem here. 

You've already decided to chalk it up to showing emotion on the field and nothing more. 

That said:

The refusal to play for some teams. 

The ownership issue. 

The crying. 

The nail polish. 

The refusing to speak to media. 

The inability to speak to media in any significant manner when things don't go his way as opposed to pouting. 

Sitting out of the bowl game. 

Flip flopping on going back to USC and NIL money depending on the order of the draft. 

All of these things are, admittedly, smoke. What's the fire? A bon fire or a candle? We don't know yet. But none of these things really came up when things were going great, either, nor would they. They reared their head when things suddenly began not going Caleb Williams' way in ways people also swore wouldn't be the case because he's Caleb Williams.

I find it indicative of maturity concerns from a guy who, demonstrably, doesn't rise to the occasion when the times get tough. Other people handwave it away as passion and blame USC's defense and skill position players and call any criticism of Williams "hot takes" while conveniently avoiding his lack of winning or production against better competition- which is only going to get better and better as he gets into the NFL. 

You have said his college teammates like him, no? OK, great, he showered them with NIL money and very few players get thrown under the bus. I can provide loving words of adulation from college teammates of nearly every a-hole prospect to ever come about. Pretty sure Ruggs was the quiet kid who never got In any trouble (except that he did and it wasn't actually looked into), Aaron Hernandez was a beloved lockerroom leader, RG3 was the consummate teammate, Russ was a true leader of men, so on so forth. 

I think Caleb Williams is the classic example of entitled and has major maturity concerns- actions that haven't been backed up with results like the guys you named, and suffered from the USC brand, his hype as a highly touted HS recruit, highly sought after transfer who followed his coach from one school to another receiving superstar treatment, and being a projected top 10 pick for the bulk of his college career- and has on-field concerns that don't lead themselves kindly to NFL success or overcoming the issues I think he has.

Some people call being entitled or coddled. Some, apparently, just call it emotion. Either can be correct. Right now, nobody actually knows. I know I wouldn't take him. I think he would 100% flop an interview. I think the history shows he'll struggle against good NFL teams and instead of taking ownership or backing up the big talk, he'll fold like a wet paper sack, and I wouldn't risk my job or franchise on that when better adjusted individuals are available.

Some people still have him QB1. I highly doubt any NFL team would openly admit to not having a 1st round grade on him- if any don't. And in the event he is 100% as advertised, nobody is going to come out and say they had an undraftable grade on him or he wasn't their top ranked prospect. I, however, don't mind saying it. He's not on my board at all. If I were the Raiders GM, and he's there at 13, I'm taking the best offer made or selecting someone else. Too much to dislike about him for me. 

You've already indicated you don't have those concerns. That's fine. I wouldn't bother asking anyone to lay out why they think opposite, though, because I can practically guarantee that nobody can provide anything that will change your mind. No need to fish for it. Save yourself the time and accept that whatever discussion you hope to have on Williams isn't going to go anywhere. I stopped engaging with people about him because it's impossible to get anywhere productive. It could be emotions, it could be he's a class A pouting diva. It could be the lack of talent around him, it could be that he padded stats against lesser competition and was pedestrian to outright bad against good defenses. 

You think him getting frustrated on the sideline is a display of competitive spirit. I think it's an outburst likena.child not getting his way. You're set on your stance, me on mine. We'll see who's correct in the not too distant future. Til then, I'd avoid even trying to discuss it because I can admit the evidence I would need to prove your stance correct simply doesn't exist right now. Same likely goes for you. 

Just some banter. 

 

[jpaulthe1st]

13 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

The bolded is sort if the problem here. 

You've already decided to chalk it up to showing emotion on the field and nothing more. 

That said:

The refusal to play for some teams. 

The ownership issue. 

The crying. 

The nail polish. 

The refusing to speak to media. 

The inability to speak to media in any significant manner when things don't go his way as opposed to pouting. 

Sitting out of the bowl game. 

Flip flopping on going back to USC and NIL money depending on the order of the draft. 

All of these things are, admittedly, smoke. What's the fire? A bon fire or a candle? We don't know yet. But none of these things really came up when things were going great, either, nor would they. They reared their head when things suddenly began not going Caleb Williams' way in ways people also swore wouldn't be the case because he's Caleb Williams.

I find it indicative of maturity concerns from a guy who, demonstrably, doesn't rise to the occasion when the times get tough. Other people handwave it away as passion and blame USC's defense and skill position players and call any criticism of Williams "hot takes" while conveniently avoiding his lack of winning or production against better competition- which is only going to get better and better as he gets into the NFL. 

You have said his college teammates like him, no? OK, great, he showered them with NIL money and very few players get thrown under the bus. I can provide loving words of adulation from college teammates of nearly every a-hole prospect to ever come about. Pretty sure Ruggs was the quiet kid who never got In any trouble (except that he did and it wasn't actually looked into), Aaron Hernandez was a beloved lockerroom leader, RG3 was the consummate teammate, Russ was a true leader of men, so on so forth. 

I think Caleb Williams is the classic example of entitled and has major maturity concerns- actions that haven't been backed up with results like the guys you named, and suffered from the USC brand, his hype as a highly touted HS recruit, highly sought after transfer who followed his coach from one school to another receiving superstar treatment, and being a projected top 10 pick for the bulk of his college career- and has on-field concerns that don't lead themselves kindly to NFL success or overcoming the issues I think he has.

Some people call being entitled or coddled. Some, apparently, just call it emotion. Either can be correct. Right now, nobody actually knows. I know I wouldn't take him. I think he would 100% flop an interview. I think the history shows he'll struggle against good NFL teams and instead of taking ownership or backing up the big talk, he'll fold like a wet paper sack, and I wouldn't risk my job or franchise on that when better adjusted individuals are available.

Some people still have him QB1. I highly doubt any NFL team would openly admit to not having a 1st round grade on him- if any don't. And in the event he is 100% as advertised, nobody is going to come out and say they had an undraftable grade on him or he wasn't their top ranked prospect. I, however, don't mind saying it. He's not on my board at all. If I were the Raiders GM, and he's there at 13, I'm taking the best offer made or selecting someone else. Too much to dislike about him for me. 

You've already indicated you don't have those concerns. That's fine. I wouldn't bother asking anyone to lay out why they think opposite, though, because I can practically guarantee that nobody can provide anything that will change your mind. No need to fish for it. Save yourself the time and accept that whatever discussion you hope to have on Williams isn't going to go anywhere. I stopped engaging with people about him because it's impossible to get anywhere productive. It could be emotions, it could be he's a class A pouting diva. It could be the lack of talent around him, it could be that he padded stats against lesser competition and was pedestrian to outright bad against good defenses. 

You think him getting frustrated on the sideline is a display of competitive spirit. I think it's an outburst likena.child not getting his way. You're set on your stance, me on mine. We'll see who's correct in the not too distant future. Til then, I'd avoid even trying to discuss it because I can admit the evidence I would need to prove your stance correct simply doesn't exist right now. Same likely goes for you. 

Just some banter. 

 

So much hyperbole and reaches here I’m not even sure where to start. Sheesh…..

[CaliforniaKid7]

56 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

The bolded is sort if the problem here. 

You've already decided to chalk it up to showing emotion on the field and nothing more. 

That said:

The refusal to play for some teams. 

The ownership issue. 

The crying. 

The nail polish. 

The refusing to speak to media. 

The inability to speak to media in any significant manner when things don't go his way as opposed to pouting. 

Sitting out of the bowl game. 

Flip flopping on going back to USC and NIL money depending on the order of the draft. 

All of these things are, admittedly, smoke. What's the fire? A bon fire or a candle? We don't know yet. But none of these things really came up when things were going great, either, nor would they. They reared their head when things suddenly began not going Caleb Williams' way in ways people also swore wouldn't be the case because he's Caleb Williams.

I find it indicative of maturity concerns from a guy who, demonstrably, doesn't rise to the occasion when the times get tough. Other people handwave it away as passion and blame USC's defense and skill position players and call any criticism of Williams "hot takes" while conveniently avoiding his lack of winning or production against better competition- which is only going to get better and better as he gets into the NFL. 

You have said his college teammates like him, no? OK, great, he showered them with NIL money and very few players get thrown under the bus. I can provide loving words of adulation from college teammates of nearly every a-hole prospect to ever come about. Pretty sure Ruggs was the quiet kid who never got In any trouble (except that he did and it wasn't actually looked into), Aaron Hernandez was a beloved lockerroom leader, RG3 was the consummate teammate, Russ was a true leader of men, so on so forth. 

I think Caleb Williams is the classic example of entitled and has major maturity concerns- actions that haven't been backed up with results like the guys you named, and suffered from the USC brand, his hype as a highly touted HS recruit, highly sought after transfer who followed his coach from one school to another receiving superstar treatment, and being a projected top 10 pick for the bulk of his college career- and has on-field concerns that don't lead themselves kindly to NFL success or overcoming the issues I think he has.

Some people call being entitled or coddled. Some, apparently, just call it emotion. Either can be correct. Right now, nobody actually knows. I know I wouldn't take him. I think he would 100% flop an interview. I think the history shows he'll struggle against good NFL teams and instead of taking ownership or backing up the big talk, he'll fold like a wet paper sack, and I wouldn't risk my job or franchise on that when better adjusted individuals are available.

Some people still have him QB1. I highly doubt any NFL team would openly admit to not having a 1st round grade on him- if any don't. And in the event he is 100% as advertised, nobody is going to come out and say they had an undraftable grade on him or he wasn't their top ranked prospect. I, however, don't mind saying it. He's not on my board at all. If I were the Raiders GM, and he's there at 13, I'm taking the best offer made or selecting someone else. Too much to dislike about him for me. 

You've already indicated you don't have those concerns. That's fine. I wouldn't bother asking anyone to lay out why they think opposite, though, because I can practically guarantee that nobody can provide anything that will change your mind. No need to fish for it. Save yourself the time and accept that whatever discussion you hope to have on Williams isn't going to go anywhere. I stopped engaging with people about him because it's impossible to get anywhere productive. It could be emotions, it could be he's a class A pouting diva. It could be the lack of talent around him, it could be that he padded stats against lesser competition and was pedestrian to outright bad against good defenses. 

You think him getting frustrated on the sideline is a display of competitive spirit. I think it's an outburst likena.child not getting his way. You're set on your stance, me on mine. We'll see who's correct in the not too distant future. Til then, I'd avoid even trying to discuss it because I can admit the evidence I would need to prove your stance correct simply doesn't exist right now. Same likely goes for you. 

Just some banter. 

 

Let's just start with the ownership and refusal to play for certain teams -- PLEASE direct me to a credited report backing these claims. They all started with that garbage guy over at PFT or whatever site he runs. Any credible source that links this directly to CW or anyone associated with him? It's absolute rumor mill to the fullest extent.

Sitting out the bowl game? So you then have issue with a large number of players going in the top 2 rounds? This isn't specific to CW at all. 

Flip flopping back forth to USC? Trust me buddy, I follow USC and that was never an actual threat but yet another point pandered by the media to trash on him. Again, if you've got a credible report backing that I'd love to read it because it sure as hell didn't come from USC or Caleb himself. 

Doesn't rise to the occasion when things get tough? This might be the funniest of all your points so far. How did Drake Maye do? Did he rise to the occasion? Penix? Nix? Nada, nada, and nada. 

It's obvious you aren't open to given him a chance and that's fine - I just hope with as stringent of criteria you have for Caleb that there's countless other players you've had off your board for issues. Seems like a double standard. Enjoy your evening and excited for him to prove you wrong.