SemperFeist Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 7 hours ago, swede700 said: I've always thought that Oliver was basically the extra o-lineman. Do they have enough healthy o-linemen to run with an extra on the field? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nbanflguy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 Definitely inconsistent this year. Not starting Chandler when anyone and everyone could see he makes Mattison look like he is moving in slow motion Not adjusting his offense for Dobbs after the Atlanta game Hock pitch to Dobbs play on 3rd and short, bengals tush pushes. Being aggressive on 3rd and long in easy FG range in Green Bay that had Cousins get hurt…. And then being very anti aggressive after that like in the broncos and bears games Refusing to fully commit to the run when it’s actually working. Atlanta had a drive where they ran it down our throat like 12 straight plays to score a td late against us. We should have been doing this against the bengals and raiders. instead we are throwing it on 1st and goal from the 1 with a QB who makes poor decisions Not using CJ Ham at all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 15 minutes ago, Nbanflguy said: Definitely inconsistent this year. Not starting Chandler when anyone and everyone could see he makes Mattison look like he is moving in slow motion Not adjusting his offense for Dobbs after the Atlanta game Hock pitch to Dobbs play on 3rd and short, bengals tush pushes. Being aggressive on 3rd and long in easy FG range in Green Bay that had Cousins get hurt…. And then being very anti aggressive after that like in the broncos and bears games Refusing to fully commit to the run when it’s actually working. Atlanta had a drive where they ran it down our throat like 12 straight plays to score a td late against us. We should have been doing this against the bengals and raiders. instead we are throwing it on 1st and goal from the 1 with a QB who makes poor decisions Not using CJ Ham at all I think we've gotten to a point where we're picking apart minor things from him as a coach. Which, yes he's a profession head coach that comes with the job, but a lot of the criticisms of KO are the kinds of things that will and have been said about historically very good coaches. How's his leadership? How does he manage people? Does he run a good system that's adaptable and intuitive? Is he a good problem identifier and solver? And yes Play calling, play design and game day decisions, what do those look like? Some of these things, KO is a smashing success imo, some we'll need to see improvement on in year 3 and hopefully beyond. One thing that I don't really think is arguable anymore is that he's a good play caller/designer. He's very good at the Offensive coordinator part of his job. People were open, offense was generated or at least there were yards available on the field in the broncos game through the last one against the Lions. The backup QBs had 12 turnovers in those games.... That's a tough hill to climb for any coach, even if he is at fault in those losses for some of his decisions. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nbanflguy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 11 minutes ago, Dolmonite26 said: I think we've gotten to a point where we're picking apart minor things from him as a coach. Which, yes he's a profession head coach that comes with the job, but a lot of the criticisms of KO are the kinds of things that will and have been said about historically very good coaches. How's his leadership? How does he manage people? Does he run a good system that's adaptable and intuitive? Is he a good problem identifier and solver? And yes Play calling, play design and game day decisions, what do those look like? Some of these things, KO is a smashing success imo, some we'll need to see improvement on in year 3 and hopefully beyond. One thing that I don't really think is arguable anymore is that he's a good play caller/designer. He's very good at the Offensive coordinator part of his job. People were open, offense was generated or at least there were yards available on the field in the broncos game through the last one against the Lions. The backup QBs had 12 turnovers in those games.... That's a tough hill to climb for any coach, even if he is at fault in those losses for some of his decisions. I will say it’s clear as day that he has given the Vikings an elite culture that players and staff have fully boughten into 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Nbanflguy said: I will say it’s clear as day that he has given the Vikings an elite culture that players and staff have fully boughten into Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 When people say the O’Connell didn’t adjust his offense for Dobbs, what does that even mean? What was O’Connell supposed to do? What has Dobbs ever shown the consistent ability to do for a coach to game plan around? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 52 minutes ago, Nbanflguy said: Not adjusting his offense for Dobbs after the Atlanta game 52 minutes ago, Nbanflguy said: Hock pitch to Dobbs play on 3rd and short Wait…what? Didn’t adjust the offense, but then criticizing a play call that was designed to utilize Dobbs’ strengths? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 6 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: When people say the O’Connell didn’t adjust his offense for Dobbs, what does that even mean? What was O’Connell supposed to do? What has Dobbs ever shown the consistent ability to do for a coach to game plan around? The whole conversation about the QBs has become so frustrating. People acting as if it was obvious that Dobbs needed to be benched after the Saints game or if KO had magically, mid season changed the offense for Dobbs we'd have 10 wins. I'm building a bit of a straw man, but I just hate the process people approach this with, 1 win out of 5 = coach bad. The only that has become obvious in hindsight is that the season was over when Cousins went down, which isn't all that surprising and has happened to many a good coach. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriminalMind Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: When people say the O’Connell didn’t adjust his offense for Dobbs, what does that even mean? What was O’Connell supposed to do? What has Dobbs ever shown the consistent ability to do for a coach to game plan around? So it’s not in the coaches roles and responsibilities to come up with a game plan/ scheme to give the QB and offense the best chance to succeed? oh, i have a backup QB, But let’s just drop back and throw the ball regardless like we have Cousins still at QB. Edited December 27, 2023 by CriminalMind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 29 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: When people say the O’Connell didn’t adjust his offense for Dobbs, what does that even mean? What was O’Connell supposed to do? What has Dobbs ever shown the consistent ability to do for a coach to game plan around? They ran some RPOs in the raiders game and Dobbs looked extremely uncomfortable and bad at it. I've defended the guy quite a bit, but he struggles to operate in offense's structure and doesn't have the physical talent to consistently make up for it or build an offense around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, CriminalMind said: So it’s not in the coaches roles and responsibilities to come up with a game plan/ scheme to give the QB and offense the best chance to succeed? What semper said and what you're saying are not corollaries 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vike daddy Posted December 27, 2023 Author Share Posted December 27, 2023 1 minute ago, Dolmonite26 said: What semper said and what you're saying are not corollaries they do tend to give me coronaries though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nbanflguy Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 37 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Wait…what? Didn’t adjust the offense, but then criticizing a play call that was designed to utilize Dobbs’ strengths? That’s one play call…. And it’s a stupid play call that got Dobbs killed. No need to get cute on 3rd and 1 against one of the worst run D’s in the league. Dobbs should have been doing QB draws, read options, bootlegs, handing the ball off to chandler more, etc. Get him moving outside the pocket where the threat of him running can stress out the defense. Not dropping back to pass 40 times per game like cousins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Nbanflguy said: That’s one play call…. And it’s a stupid play call that got Dobbs killed. No need to get cute on 3rd and 1 against one of the worst run D’s in the league. Dobbs should have been doing QB draws, read options, bootlegs, handing the ball off to chandler more, etc. Get him moving outside the pocket where the threat of him running can stress out the defense. Not dropping back to pass 40 times per game like cousins The issue is that the offense was built around Kirk. You can't change the offense in a week or 2 to suit a different style-QB...and there never was truly an intention to start Dobbs when they traded for him, he was just supposed to provide depth since Mullens was still on IR. If they haven't been practicing QB draws, read options and bootlegs ever (which Kirk couldn't or wouldn't do), you can't just install it in a couple of practices mid-week. That would be unfair to everyone else on the offensive side of the ball. Edited December 27, 2023 by swede700 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolmonite26 Posted December 27, 2023 Share Posted December 27, 2023 I think the biggest mistake KO made regarding Dobbs was from a talent eval perspective. I believe he thought Dobbs was capable enough to grow into the offense and he was also rewarding Dobbs high level play vs Atlanta and New Orleans (meaning he gave him a longer leash based on those performances). Based on what we've seen from Mullens, I can't say I really blame O'Connell for thinking Dobbs had a higher ceiling to be tapped. Ultimately, the switch should have been made during the Bears game Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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