ET80 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 3 minutes ago, MWil23 said: 42 minutes ago, ET80 said: This is the narrative… because it’s the TRUTH. Joe Thomas never played on a winning team. Sorry that facts hurt your feelings. Can’t really help you with that. His rookie year they went 10-6 He played on *A* winning team. Better? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 31 minutes ago, ET80 said: Please show me where anyone suggested this part. Everyone knows you’re miserable for losing - nobody likes to lose. But there was a ray of hope that some day, that would change for Cleveland. Now maybe you don’t care that others are pulling for that, but that’s not what’s been discussed. This entire convo started by a Ravens fan saying "The only angle they've had for decades is being lovable losers" And I point out that angle was pathetic and meaningless to cling onto if you were a Browns fan anyway. Browns fans who took solace in that need to re-evaluate their views. Maybe his statement was for everybody who isn't a Browns fan, that's fine, but I'm not sure what your angle has been when my response was pretty clearly aimed at how Browns fans feel or should feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 27 minutes ago, ET80 said: He played on *A* winning team. Better? From this point on I live in the past until Watson is gone 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ramssuperbowl99 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 1 minute ago, MWil23 said: From this point on I live in the past until Watson is gone Only in a sports forum will this be a hot take: The second following a team stops consistently making you feel happier or helps with the itch you want to scratch, leave and don't come back until being a fan makes you happier. Making yourself miserable for the badge of "not being a fair weather fan" is an especially dumb way to live your life for people who don't care one bit about you. If you want to be a miserable fan watching, fine. If not, check out as much as you need to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWil23 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 18 minutes ago, ramssuperbowl99 said: Only in a sports forum will this be a hot take: The second following a team stops consistently making you feel happier or helps with the itch you want to scratch, leave and don't come back until being a fan makes you happier. Making yourself miserable for the badge of "not being a fair weather fan" is an especially dumb way to live your life for people who don't care one bit about you. If you want to be a miserable fan watching, fine. If not, check out as much as you need to. I had a moment of catharsis and clarity drinking coffee and talking to my wife this morning: I feel guilty for rushing through the bedtime routine with my kids so I could tune in and then when Chubb got hurt, I instantly realized he was what was keeping me going. I then looked at my wife and laughed something along the lines of being glad I did not buy the Sunday Ticket. I am not going to feel guilty or angry like this again. Edited September 19, 2023 by MWil23 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 12 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: Maybe his statement was for everybody who isn't a Browns fan, that's fine, but I'm not sure what your angle has been when my response was pretty clearly aimed at how Browns fans feel or should feel. My angle is ultimately how you’re now the bad guy. You may think graphics and narratives (that were …ultimately factually correct) is some sort of slight against you and how you’ve always been perceived as this. Truth is - each thing mentioned as a slight against Cleveland (Joe Thomas narrative, graphics flashed up during prime time games) was a fact of the state of the franchise. Now instead of trying to insulate those items, we (as in, non-division rivals) aren’t going to do that anymore. We’re going to say the quiet parts out loud. You may say you don’t care, but - as your comments about said items as some sort of slight against the Browns - you know each item is the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboat Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: I actually have no idea what your point is, that Browns fans didn't truly realize how much the Browns sucked until we weren't somebody in Ontario's 2nd favorite team anymore? You think it's fun that half the conversation around your HOF player inevitably is about how unbelievably miserable the teams he played on was? I love Joe Thomas, I was happy to see him get in, but half of it was a reminder how crap we've been and that he deserved way better. Nobody was going to pull punches about that if we didn't have a sex pest at QB. If the Browns with Baker go on a NE-like dynasty run do we become "lovable winners"? No we become hated just the same as other winning franchises, at best neutral. Nietzsche spoke to this 150 years ago. Lovable losers is just saying "stay in your place, so that we will keep liking you and you will be miserable and beloved". I think you're completely missing the point with this. Right down to misconstruing the Nietzsche comment at the end. If the Browns were to go from "lovable losers" to "hated winners" because they're ruthlessly doing the things it takes to win, or even just from the onslaught of constant, sustained dominance and winning...that'd be one thing. That happens. Very rarely is the team at the top of the heap "loved" by other fans. But that's not what the Browns have done. They've if anything, become worse in the process of doing something that erases any good will an lovability from other fanbases. They've become even bigger losers. While simultaneously eradicating any sympathy or commiseration from other fans. Becoming even bigger losers is not the prescribed positive alternative path out of there. Nor is becoming more disliked, just for the sake of it, with no tangible benefit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 2 hours ago, Rod Johnson said: Jim Brown was an important civil rights leader, an other-worldly football talent, and terrible to people in his personal life. I will continue to celebrate him for the first 2, and criticize him the the latter. I hate Deshaun because he's a sex pest and he sucks right now, and I was highly skeptical when we traded for him and have been unfortunately proven right. Does Baker Mayfield look like an even better option now? I mean he was only the best QB for Cleveland in 32 years. Yet, somehow, he is seen as a bust because he played through injury and terrible coaching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 6 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I think you're completely missing the point with this. Right down to misconstruing the Nietzsche comment at the end. If the Browns were to go from "lovable losers" to "hated winners" because they're ruthlessly doing the things it takes to win, or even just from the onslaught of constant, sustained dominance and winning...that'd be one thing. That happens. Very rarely is the team at the top of the heap "loved" by other fans. But that's not what the Browns have done. They've if anything, become worse in the process of doing something that erases any good will an lovability from other fanbases. They've become even bigger losers. While simultaneously eradicating any sympathy or commiseration from other fans. Becoming even bigger losers is not the prescribed positive alternative path out of there. Nor is becoming more disliked, just for the sake of it, with no tangible benefit. This! THIS! Was I not saying this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeT14 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 Anyone post the D Watson burner account yet? https://x.com/BallsDeepInYm3/status/1703997027082797112?s=20 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 10 minutes ago, ET80 said: My angle is ultimately how you’re now the bad guy. You may think graphics and narratives (that were …ultimately factually correct) is some sort of slight against you and how you’ve always been perceived as this. Truth is - each thing mentioned as a slight against Cleveland (Joe Thomas narrative, graphics flashed up during prime time games) was a fact of the state of the franchise. Now instead of trying to insulate those items, we (as in, non-division rivals) aren’t going to do that anymore. We’re going to say the quiet parts out loud. You may say you don’t care, but - as your comments about said items as some sort of slight against the Browns - you know each item is the truth. That's not a slight against us, how are the graphics and narrative that always existed somehow the "quiet" part, that's always been 99% of the dialogue. When were those items ever insulated? They have always been the main course when discussing this team. Edited September 19, 2023 by Rod Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 2 minutes ago, Rod Johnson said: That's not a slight against us, how are the graphics and narrative that always existed somehow the "quiet" part, that's always been 99% of the dialogue. It’s 99% of the dialogue because it’s 100% true. When you talk about Joe Thomas, never winning is part of the narrative - because he didn’t win. When you flash up various stats on ineptness, that’s the Browns in a nutshell. It may not be “fun” for you, but football isn’t supposed to be fun for Cleveland. People like me pointed out the accolades of Thomas, the emergence of guys like Nick Chubb, the dominance of Myles Garrett - those things don’t matter anymore. Cleveland is who they are, the sum of their parts can’t hide the ineptitude that runs down to the core of this franchise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 10 minutes ago, MikeT14 said: Anyone post the D Watson burner account yet? https://x.com/BallsDeepInYm3/status/1703997027082797112?s=20 Oh, this guy is so fragile… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 7 minutes ago, ET80 said: It’s 99% of the dialogue because it’s 100% true. When you talk about Joe Thomas, never winning is part of the narrative - because he didn’t win. When you flash up various stats on ineptness, that’s the Browns in a nutshell. It may not be “fun” for you, but football isn’t supposed to be fun for Cleveland. People like me pointed out the accolades of Thomas, the emergence of guys like Nick Chubb, the dominance of Myles Garrett - those things don’t matter anymore. Cleveland is who they are, the sum of their parts can’t hide the ineptitude that runs down to the core of this franchise. The only thing I am saying is that how other fanbases feel about the Cleveland Browns is not something that Browns fans should ever cling onto. None of this seems remotely tied to that sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Johnson Posted September 19, 2023 Share Posted September 19, 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, Tugboat said: I think you're completely missing the point with this. Right down to misconstruing the Nietzsche comment at the end. If the Browns were to go from "lovable losers" to "hated winners" because they're ruthlessly doing the things it takes to win, or even just from the onslaught of constant, sustained dominance and winning...that'd be one thing. That happens. Very rarely is the team at the top of the heap "loved" by other fans. But that's not what the Browns have done. They've if anything, become worse in the process of doing something that erases any good will an lovability from other fanbases. They've become even bigger losers. While simultaneously eradicating any sympathy or commiseration from other fans. Becoming even bigger losers is not the prescribed positive alternative path out of there. Nor is becoming more disliked, just for the sake of it, with no tangible benefit. Is this about team building or is this about how Browns fans should feel about the perception of their team? Perception is and has always been that this is a horrible team, if fans were getting pick-me-ups because fans of other teams pity them then they should reconsider why that sentiment had any importance to them in the first place. Edited September 19, 2023 by Rod Johnson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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