Let's talk Bryce Young

[Texansfan713]

I am rooting for Young to succeed.  I wanted him even over Stroud and was pissed the Texans lost that meaningless game vs the Colts.  Thats why I cant come in this thread and gloat about Stroud.  

[RaidersAreOne]

Yeah, it's looking like the Panthers most-definitely took the wrong QB.

[Jaytrajik]

Not gonna lie I wanted CJ  but even if we would've drafted Young, I would've been fine with that. When the O line gave him time to work against us, he made plays and won the game. Ultimately I think he'll be alright, he can make every throw necessary and he has a high football acumen which is what you want from your young signal caller. I think people are just upset that he hasn't grasped it right away like CJ, very few young QBs ever do so it shouldn't be a knock against him. 

 

[SteelKing728]

1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said:

Yeah, it's looking like the Panthers most-definitely took the wrong QB.

Let's say his play like this continues in 2024.

How long until he's replaced?

[iknowcool]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I've complained about the WR's but never about Mark Andrews.

Dude has talent around him, but even beyond that he just looks bad regardless. 

When you say talent, you just mean Adam Thielen, right?  Who are the other talented players?

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

6 minutes ago, iknowcool said:

When you say talent, you just mean Adam Thielen, right?  Who are the other talented players?

Chark and Mingo. Terrace Marshall I'm going to guess is just a complete bust at this point.

But those weapons are pretty much what Stroud has in Houston, he's just making those guys look better.

[iknowcool]

13 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Chark and Mingo. Terrace Marshall I'm going to guess is just a complete bust at this point.

But those weapons are pretty much what Stroud has in Houston, he's just making those guys look better.

What about Jonathan Mingo's game have you been impressed about the most?

And no disrespect but I swear some of ya'll live in a fantasy world with DJ Chark.  Its okay, I did too before the season.  He sucks.  And it isn't a "Bryce Young isn't helping him" issue.  He really does suck.  His speed has vanished due to injuries.  He hasn't had more than 700 yards since 2019, when he actually was a good WR before the repeated soft tissue injuries.  And that 700 yards was in 2020 - he had 656 yards between '21-'22 (injuries limited him, but he was hurt for damn near all of training camp this year and you can tell when you watch him play he isn't the guy he used to be). NFL Next Gen Stats has him at 2.5 yards per separation (Mingo is at an even worse 2.1) - compare that to Dell, who averages 3.3.  He's no better than a Devin Duvernay, except taller and more well-known.  And he's too soft of a player for that height to even matter.  

Everyone seems to agree MVS sucks, yet he's been a lot more productive than DJ Chark over the past few years.  I don't know what ya'll have seen in Chark in the last 3 years to think of him as any more than a JAG.  But again, I get it.  I made the same mistake too.  You see a guy like Chark, think about the speed he used to have, and you think "man he has to be talented." 

Edited November 6, 2023 by iknowcool

[Chiefer]

4 hours ago, Soko said:

I don’t think it has anything to do with their measurables. 80% of what it takes to be a good QB in those league have to do with what’s above the shoulders. Guys either have that or they don’t. Bryce’s arm clearly isn’t an issue. Obviously being shorter/smaller/skinnier/slower/weaker arm, wouldn’t help and only would make things tougher - but does anyone think that if you put Brady or Peyton or Bree’s’ brain in Young’s body, that he wouldn’t succeed because he’s too small? 

The flip side to Bryce being a cautionary tale is - what about Wentz? Or Lynch? Or Osweiler? Or EJ? Or Locker? Or Gabbert? Or Rosen? Or Bortles? Those are all bigger QBs that fit more of the traditional mold than Young. Their size didn’t seem to help them stay in the league all that much. You have super talented guys at every position, that check every box, that don’t become big successes. 

You just can’t tell. If Young becomes a massive QB bust, it’ll be because he didn’t have what it takes as a QB, not because he’s too short. 

Lol keep thinking measurables have nothing to do with Quarterbacking. There’s plenty of evidence, like 100 years of NFL quarterbacking that shows that short guys just don’t find success in the league. Either they’re not given a chance or they’re extreme outliers like Russel Wilson, Drew Brees or Kyler. in fact can you name me any sub 6foot HOF Quarterbacks? Because I can’t think of a single one. I can name several HOF QBs that are over 6ft however, like all of them.

I never said being tall guarantees success, it’s an extremely hard job. You definitely need the brain for it. But the likelihood of them being successful is much higher than a guy who’s 5’8 and 190 soaking wet

[Soko]

4 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Lol keep thinking measurables have nothing to do with Quarterbacking. There’s plenty of evidence, like 100 years of NFL quarterbacking that shows that short guys just don’t find success in the league. Either they’re not given a chance or they’re extreme outliers like Russel Wilson, Drew Brees or Kyler. in fact can you name me any sub 6foot HOF Quarterbacks? Because I can’t think of a single one. I can name several HOF QBs that are over 6ft however, like all of them.

I never said being tall guarantees success, it’s an extremely hard job. You definitely need the brain for it. But the likelihood of them being successful is much higher than a guy who’s 5’8 and 190 soaking wet

Sigh.

Nowhere did I say that measurables play no part whatsoever, in fact I said outright that being shorter/skinnier/weaker/weak armed/etc that that does make things harder compared to someone that has all of those things. 

The norm for any football player, at any position, of any height, of any weight, out of any school, is always failure. The answer will always be “more people have failed than succeeded while being [insert descriptive trait here].” The QB position, more so than most, is about the head and the arm than it is the body. The majority of top 10 QBs we’ve ever seen aren’t “eh, they’re not really good passers, but they have all the measurables” kind of guys. It’s reversed. 

If Bryce can develop a feel for the pocket, make good decisions, deliver an accurate ball, read the defenses, and make his checks - then what’ll being 3 inches shorter than Brees or Baker mean? If he does none of that, then being 6’5 won’t make him useful. 

QB is waaaaay more about innate throwing ability and arm talent than it is being tall and heavy. You’re putting way too much into that. 

[Dr A W Niloc]

The issue isn't which QB the Panthers took but when they took him.

Compare Carolina's impatience with Houston's approach:  hire a head coach, get an OLine in place, prepare some primo targets, a modicum of a defense and a ground game.  See also Atlanta or, to stretch the point, da Bears. 

No QB has a chance of success in Young's position simply because the Panthers were at least two spectacular drafts away from auditioning a franchise QB.  Now they have no draft capital.

[AkronsWitness]

9 minutes ago, Dr A W Niloc said:

The issue isn't which QB the Panthers took but when they took him.

Compare Carolina's impatience with Houston's approach:  hire a head coach, get an OLine in place, prepare some primo targets, a modicum of a defense and a ground game.  See also Atlanta or, to stretch the point, da Bears. 

No QB has a chance of success in Young's position simply because the Panthers were at least two spectacular drafts away from auditioning a franchise QB.  Now they have no draft capital.

They are really stuck, however when you draft a guy #1 overall you expect him to be good enough to overcome deficiencies at other positions on the team. Whats the saying? You take a guy #1 overall that you expect to be a HOFer. 

This is obviously more on the Panthers for where they selected him more than it is Young himself. If he was the #3 or #5 overall pick (which he probably should have been given his height/weight/playstyle), then nobody would be saying a word right now about his early struggles--but responsibility and expectations come with being the #1 pick.

This whole thing/comparison/bust conversation all stems back to the slot he was drafted. 

[iknowcool]

Backs up a lot of what I have been saying, if anyone cares to watch.  Bryce needs to play better but it is just the worst possible environment too. The offensive scheme and skill-level and speed/athleticism of our WRs is bottoms in the NFL.  And there's just no hope on the OL.

A lot of smoke to Frank Reich not surviving the season.  Hopefully the next HC, if it happens, has a system in place that is better suited for Bryce's (and the offenses) skill-set.

Edited November 9, 2023 by iknowcool

[Chiefer]

The bare minimum you ask is he outduels a guy from Shepherd University. 

[tab]

On 11/6/2023 at 12:10 PM, Texansfan713 said:

I am rooting for Young to succeed.  I wanted him even over Stroud and was pissed the Texans lost that meaningless game vs the Colts.  Thats why I cant come in this thread and gloat about Stroud.  

ooh! I could probably gloat then if I really wanted to (which I don't really).

I think Bryce will bust hard if they dont fix the team as soon as they can. I dont really follow the panthers, and I know they traded some draft picks in the next draft, so I'm not sure what the options going forward really are for them though. I think you have to get rid of Reich though, but only if you can absolutely nail the next HC

[CP3MVP]

History won’t be kind to him if he doesn’t turn it around because unlike most number one overall picks he didn’t go to the worst team. They had to trade up for him.