BroncoBruin Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, broncos67 said: He needs to leave for his own good. Vic mentioned something on Twitter about it, but it's been thrown around for awhile. It's clear he's just not happy here. Seems like he's in a bad spot. I think it's best for both parties to just move on. I agree he’d be better off elsewhere (who wouldn’t be?) but the guy is such a loser, he’s going to disappoint any team and fanbase that takes a chance on him. Just not a very good football player. He should be like those AND1 basketball guys but just for running routes on air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 There is a losing culture on the team and that needs to be removed. Everyone should be for sale at a price. Indeed I wouldn't have a problem using Surtain as bait if needed to move up to take a QB. I suspect that Bolles will be kept simply because LTs are so hard to find. In the meantime I think that it is only a matter of time before Stidham replaces Wilson at QB - Payton will want to see what he has in Stidham before the draft and I think he will want to give him 5/6 games to get a decent look at him. At the moment, for 2024, we are $20m over the cap - but there are a host of players who we can trade/cut for big savings. Wilson being cut pre-June 2024 costs $85million against the cap - a post June cut costs $18.4m in 2024 and something like $53.5m in 2025 - but he is going to cost $55.4m in 2025 anyway if we keep him. And I have no problem even if we end up with 3rd round or later picks (ideally we would get a 2nd for Simmons and Jeudy) - the roster is so devoid of talent that we need major depth pieces anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 I don't disagree, but when you trade your talent for draft picks, is there ANY guarantee you'll get that same type of talent (which needs to be replaced because you created a void at that spot) back with those picks ? No, there isn't so you do have to see who is in it for the long haul 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 I'm not as down on our receivers as a lot of people. I suspect some of their struggles have to do with scheme. From what I can tell, Payton hasn't changed his offense hardly at all during his coaching career, and Denver's is no different. This means teams literally have 15 years worth of footage of his offenses to study. Like.. you can run the most amazing 10 yard curl route in the world, but if the defender KNOWS its gonna be a curl route, he's gonna be in position to defend. Kansas City ran a ton of man coverage against us, and our receivers couldn't get open against them. To me this indicates that Spags has done plenty of homework on Sean Payton over the years and knew exactly which route trees he likes to run. Payton is going to have to get a little more innovative, or I fear his offenses are going to struggle regardless of personnel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7DnBrnc53 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Cutler06 said: I don't disagree, but when you trade your talent for draft picks, is there ANY guarantee you'll get that same type of talent (which needs to be replaced because you created a void at that spot) back with those picks ? No, there isn't so you do have to see who is in it for the long haul That can backfire (like when Cleveland traded a shot at Julio Jones for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and Brandon Weeden in the 2011 draft). However, with the Broncos, getting rid of some of these guys is addition by subtraction. Edited October 14, 2023 by 7DnBrnc53 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 45 minutes ago, 7DnBrnc53 said: That can backfire (like when Cleveland traded a shot at Julio Jones for Phil Taylor, Greg Little, Owen Marecic, and Brandon Weeden in the 2011 draft). However, with the Broncos, getting rid of some of these guys is addition by subtraction. Agreed but you’re still creating a hole that’ll need to be filled again, that’s more my point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 2 hours ago, Cutler06 said: Agreed but you’re still creating a hole that’ll need to be filled again, that’s more my point Good points. By this time they've got a lot invested in these players. I'm sure if they don't see a role for a player in the future, attitude, lack of talent, etc they'll move on but I doubt Seans into the "fire sale" approach. He's got 4 more years to build a team and can't afford many mistakes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnAngryAmerican Posted October 14, 2023 Share Posted October 14, 2023 (edited) I’d trade the malcontents - Jeudy for sure - and maybe some others. Bolles’ attitude hasn’t been positive in some interviews I’ve seen, if he can fetch a 2nd, take it. Simmons isn’t a malcontent but if he can net us a 2nd, I’d move him too just out of loyalty, he’s been a stellar player and superstar in the community, he knows nothing but losing here, trade him to a contender and take the late 2nd. We only have 6 picks now and we don’t have a 2nd. So if we can move some guys now or after the season and get some 2nds that would be big. Edited October 16, 2023 by AnAngryAmerican Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 10 hours ago, 1234567 said: From what I can tell, Payton hasn't changed his offense hardly at all during his coaching career, and Denver's is no different. No, but he is(or was) very good at working around limitations. He ran the entire offense around Brees noodle arm from 2017 on. I would expect him to be able to do something with Russ. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cutler06 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 So honestly, is it hard to fathom this team is tanking ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, Jlowe22 said: No, but he is(or was) very good at working around limitations. He ran the entire offense around Brees noodle arm from 2017 on. I would expect him to be able to do something with Russ. Brees was very, very effective from the pocket, one of the best. Russ never has been. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 5 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Brees was very, very effective from the pocket, one of the best. Russ never has been. I'm not saying he'll ever get MVP votes, but I'd be surprised if Payton couldn't make something work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 13 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said: I’d trade the malcontents - Jeudy for sure - and maybe some others. Bolles’ attitude hasn’t been positive in some interviews I’ve seen, if he can fetch a 2nd, take it. Simmons isn’t a malcontent but if he can net us a 2nd, I’d move him too just out of loyalty, he’s been a stellar player and superstar in the community, he knows nothing but losing here, trade him to a contender and take the late 2nd. We only gave 6 picks now and we don’t have a 2nd. So if we can move some guys now or after the season and get some 2nds that would be big. I agree - what you have to look at is who is going to be around in 2/3 when hopefully Payton has righted the ship. Simmons will be 31/32 and is $18m against the cap next year - he deserves a chance to play on a better team. Jeudy should be gone as well as Sutton (now 28 - not producing and $17m cap for the next two years). There is an argument for Bolles - his attitude, he is 31 and he costs $20m next year - but if you draft a young QB you need a decent LT. Is Singleton worth the $7.3m he is being paid in 24 and 25? McGlinchy, Allena nd Powers all jump from $5/6m to $15/20m next year. Is DJ Jones worth $13m? We do have a roster with a lot of average, overpaid players - and that needs to be sorted - but more importantly - the culture has to change and moving people who don't fit going forward should happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jolly red giant Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 10 hours ago, Jlowe22 said: No, but he is(or was) very good at working around limitations. He ran the entire offense around Brees noodle arm from 2017 on. I would expect him to be able to do something with Russ. The problem is Wilson can't process what Payton needs him to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted October 15, 2023 Share Posted October 15, 2023 1 hour ago, jolly red giant said: The problem is Wilson can't process what Payton needs him to do. Yea, maybe so. I don't watch him like you guys do, but I just feel like he may be written off a bit too soon. Statistically, he's tops in the league this year in TDs/INTs at least. Although his ANY/A is middling and he's been getting sacked a lot as always, which is of course killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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