2024 WR Talk

[Daniel]

37 minutes ago, chiefs82 said:

Thoughts on Brenden Rice?

Boy, he looked good in what I saw of him in the Senior Bowl practices, for what that's worth.  Suspect bloodlines though.

In all seriousness, I definitely need to go back and watch some of his tape.

[Rich7sena]

40 minutes ago, chiefs82 said:

Thoughts on Brenden Rice?

Seems like a quality WR3/4. He reminds me of Josh Palmer.

[Tugboat]

38 minutes ago, chiefs82 said:

Thoughts on Brenden Rice?

Based on the Senior Bowl...?

 

Now put your blouse back on...

 

But also, i really just don't like him at all.  Just seems like a lot of the natural football talent and insane relentless work ethic and hands and a lot of the important stuff maybe skipped a generation.  But the ego maybe didn't.

There's clearly tools there, but the toolkit doesn't seem to be quite right.  Just find him very stiff and robotic.  Doesn't come across as a "natural receiver".  Which is weird given the pedigree, but it happens plenty often, that greatness isn't inherited.

Feel like the clip about sums it up.  Just doing things the cocky showy way, and completely missing the obvious easy details.  That's basically my thoughts.

[Techbert]

On 1/23/2024 at 10:08 PM, BetterCallSaul said:

Is there an exciting day 3 WR out there? I’m not seeing any. Roman Wilson is intriguing, but he’s probably going in the late 3rd I would guess. His 40 will push him up. 

Has anyone mentioned Malik Washington?

Also watching Ja'Lynn Polk, Jacob Cowling, Javon Baker, Isaiah Williams, and De'Corian Clark. Basically, you can draft a wr in any round and expect to get quality.

[Techbert]

On 1/27/2024 at 5:54 PM, Chiefer said:

Famous example of this was the legendary 1974 Steelers draft. Steelers had John Stallworth ranked ahead of Lynn Swann, and Jack Lambert but knew that you had to take Swann in the 1st because of his UsC pedigree. Since Stallworth came from Alabama A&M they felt confident he’d be there later so they took Lambert in the 2nd despite having no 3rd round pick. They got antsy though and traded up in the 4th to secure Stallworth

A real master class in draft strategy and scouting, and it’s how dynasties are created. 

 

 

That's nice but it mainly worked in the days when there was one tape of a prospect that existed in the whole world and you had it and you sat on it.

Once Ed Too Tall Jones was drafted the idea of slotting someone late based on where they came from or how well they were known went out the window. Today, everyone knows everyone, including that kid coming back from a year in the CFL.

[Scoundrel]

Look… I am a huge Dawgs fan. Probably the biggest Ladd McConkey fan around. But the comparisons to Kupp and Puka are ridiculous. He’s 187… Kupp was 204 and Puka was 210… this whole first round grade in this class is outrageous to me. Quote me… write it down… do whatever you want with this, he’s gonna be more Andy Isabella than he is those two… I think Ricky Pearsall ends up the better pro.

[ramsinnv]

On 1/26/2024 at 10:50 PM, Tugboat said:

 

I think you're still kinda missing the point here.  Nacua going Day 3 is...a huge scouting failure.  That's not a vindication of, "all that scouting was worth it".  It's...just, everybody whiffed on the evaluation, including the team that ultimately scooped him up Day 3.

If that team had any real clue that he was going to be nearly that good, they'd have been racing to make him a much earlier pick.  The Rams picked SEVEN other players before they finally thought Pua was the best "value".  😆  They clearly didn't have a clue what they were getting there.

 

That's what most Day 3 hidden gems and "steals" are.  A big dash of luck and a lot of collective scouting failure across the league.  Where maybe some particular scout is thrown a bone and are just banging the table for a guy because they "see something" there.  But the scouting and management as a whole haven't evaluated that player as "worth" a Day 1/2 pick.  And the reality of scouting is...that particular scout has probably also been certain that they "saw something special" in a whole bunch of chumps who washed out of the league before they even finished their rookie contracts.

 

The real "scouting wins" are when you have those "wtf?" picks on Day 1 or 2 that the consensus had going much much later, that a team has the conviction to go up and "overdraft" completely off script.  Get raked over the coals through the whole post-draft post mortem for months...until that player hits the field and suddenly explodes into a star.  Then everyone scrambles to revise history and posture as though it was somehow an obvious thing that this guy was going to be a stud because of this or that, retroactively.  lol.

Think the Rams had a pretty good idea about Puka and you aren’t giving them enough credit.  They even discussed him likely going in the 6th round.  Why draft him in the third when you think he goes in the 6th.  Your point is valid that if they knew what he would do this year they would’ve drafted him much earlier.  Preferably in the spot they took Stetson Bennet lol.  The Rams had an excellent draft considering no first round pick.

[Teen Girl Squad]

10 hours ago, Techbert said:

That's nice but it mainly worked in the days when there was one tape of a prospect that existed in the whole world and you had it and you sat on it.

Once Ed Too Tall Jones was drafted the idea of slotting someone late based on where they came from or how well they were known went out the window. Today, everyone knows everyone, including that kid coming back from a year in the CFL.

100% this. One of the reasons Belicheck's drafting/roster management had fallen off was because he was still trying to play by a similar old school playbook by scouting small schools, relying on coaching buddies for intel etc... while the rest of the league already knows all of these players and has them ranked much more appropriately to their skill level. No one is getting a first round talent in the 6th anymore as a matter of of being a hidden gem in the FCS or whatever. 

[Tugboat]

22 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Look… I am a huge Dawgs fan. Probably the biggest Ladd McConkey fan around. But the comparisons to Kupp and Puka are ridiculous. He’s 187… Kupp was 204 and Puka was 210… this whole first round grade in this class is outrageous to me. Quote me… write it down… do whatever you want with this, he’s gonna be more Andy Isabella than he is those two… I think Ricky Pearsall ends up the better pro.

McConkey isn't Isabella.  He's actually got great tools for the job and isn't just all shake 'n bake.  He's going to make some team very happy for a very long time as a more traditional slot receiver.

 

But Isabella is like the caricaturized version of how hype can get stupid for that type of receiver at the Senior Bowl.  So i totally get the comparison.  Isabella just made me laugh at the Senior Bowl though.  He was "wowing" people by making like a hundred and fifty eight micro moves before he did anything - like bruh...ya'll having a seizure or tryna run a route?  And he was absolutely TINY which also made him effectively very slow in space because he was like...Kentucky Derby Jockey sized and had short choppy inefficient strides.  Yet he "shredded" guys at the Senior Bowl by just being darty and confusing.

 

 

McConkey is more the "real deal".  But in a WR class like this, i wouldn't really have him in the first either.  When the combine rolls around and the athletic freaks do their routine though, it'll all balance out back to where it should be.  A really rock solid 2nd round pick who will become some Quarterbacks favorite target for a decade mostly out of the slot, or running that sort of route tree.

[jrry32]

2 minutes ago, Teen Girl Squad said:

100% this. One of the reasons Belicheck's drafting/roster management had fallen off was because he was still trying to play by a similar old school playbook by scouting small schools, relying on coaching buddies for intel etc... while the rest of the league already knows all of these players and has them ranked much more appropriately to their skill level. No one is getting a first round talent in the 6th anymore as a matter of of being a hidden gem in the FCS or whatever. 

But sometimes you get them in the last pick of the fifth round because all the other teams overlooked BYU. 😉

[jrry32]

29 minutes ago, Scoundrel said:

Look… I am a huge Dawgs fan. Probably the biggest Ladd McConkey fan around. But the comparisons to Kupp and Puka are ridiculous. He’s 187… Kupp was 204 and Puka was 210… this whole first round grade in this class is outrageous to me. Quote me… write it down… do whatever you want with this, he’s gonna be more Andy Isabella than he is those two… I think Ricky Pearsall ends up the better pro.

The issue with McConkey is durability imo. Neither he nor Pearsall are Kupp or Puka. Pearsall isn't good at breaking tackles or making guys miss after the catch. But he does basically everything else well. McConkey brings Julian Edelman to my mind. Really shifty dude with great burst.

[Teen Girl Squad]

3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

But sometimes you get them in the last pick of the fifth round because all the other teams overlooked BYU. 😉

I know you are joking, but there will always be late round steals. Puka definitely didn't have the production, medicals or testing numbers of a first rounder (though like Kupp and Atwell, he had elite in game GPS measured speed, which is something they lean heavily on with their WR evals). Greater point is that someone like Quinyon Mitchell isn't going to last until day 3 simply because he played in Toledo.

[Scoundrel]

35 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

McConkey isn't Isabella.  He's actually got great tools for the job and isn't just all shake 'n bake.  He's going to make some team very happy for a very long time as a more traditional slot receiver.

 

But Isabella is like the caricaturized version of how hype can get stupid for that type of receiver at the Senior Bowl.  So i totally get the comparison.  Isabella just made me laugh at the Senior Bowl though.  He was "wowing" people by making like a hundred and fifty eight micro moves before he did anything - like bruh...ya'll having a seizure or tryna run a route?  And he was absolutely TINY which also made him effectively very slow in space because he was like...Kentucky Derby Jockey sized and had short choppy inefficient strides.  Yet he "shredded" guys at the Senior Bowl by just being darty and confusing.

 

 

McConkey is more the "real deal".  But in a WR class like this, i wouldn't really have him in the first either.  When the combine rolls around and the athletic freaks do their routine though, it'll all balance out back to where it should be.  A really rock solid 2nd round pick who will become some Quarterbacks favorite target for a decade mostly out of the slot, or running that sort of route tree.

We shall see who is right in the end

[Tugboat]

38 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The issue with McConkey is durability imo. Neither he nor Pearsall are Kupp or Puka. Pearsall isn't good at breaking tackles or making guys miss after the catch. But he does basically everything else well. McConkey brings Julian Edelman to my mind. Really shifty dude with great burst.

 

Yeah.  That's McConkey to me.  A real "throwback" classic slot receiver.  Just runs routes with precision and purpose, smart and crafty to create separation that way.  That'll be his bread 'n butter in the NFL.  I don't think he's Kupp or whatever.  But anyone out there who still runs an actual slot receiver...he's going to be money.

[Tugboat]

11 hours ago, Techbert said:

Has anyone mentioned Malik Washington?

Also watching Ja'Lynn Polk, Jacob Cowling, Javon Baker, Isaiah Williams, and De'Corian Clark. Basically, you can draft a wr in any round and expect to get quality.

Ja'Lynn Polk is quietly pretty good.  I haven't dug super deep on a lot of this class yet.  But i've come across enough of Polk in the process, to know he's got some real talent.  Probably more of a bit/role player in most schemes.  But i love receivers who can play that role effectively, even if they're not the most flashy and glamorous.  Just seems like a guy who is going to be a downfield chain mover.  Like a "Poor Mans Mike Evans".  If you throw it there, that's where they'll be down.  But they'll go get it there, probably.

 

Hard to value that highly in a pretty stacked class with a lot of more versatile, well-rounded receivers.  But there's definitely still a place for Polk in an offense.